Josh Thompson: God's Plan in the Midst of Pain

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:00:09.200 - 00:02:32.675
Welcome to Eternal How Biblical Characters and Stories have Changed Lives Today I am your host, Aaron Matthew Kaiser. Since this is the premier episode of the series, I wanted to take a moment and let you know what to expect as we move forward.

The goal of Eternal Impact is to help you better relate to the characters and stories in the Bible. These aren't just words on a page.

These are the lives of actual historical figures that lived, breathed, laughed, cried and dreamed, much as you and I do. Their lives have been captured for us in these stories so that we can learn from them.

I have often found that many Christians have a favorite biblical character or parable, one that they relate to more than others. Perhaps they put their foot in their mouth as often as Peter did and are constantly getting in trouble for speaking before they think.

Or they're lacking of self confidence as Gideon was, and they are constantly thinking, surely God you haven't sent me. Maybe they read the parable of the Prodigal Son and they see their life parallel the brother who stayed behind and got jealous.

Therefore, the central premise of Eternal Impact is that we will sit down with pastors and those in Christian ministry ministry to identify and discuss what part of the Bible most resonates in their lives. The end result will hopefully be something that is more substantial than an interview and more conversational than a sermon.

You'll not only feel like you know our guest, but the biblical passage our guest most identifies with.

To start this series off, we begin close to home for me with one of my pastors, specifically the pastor I sit under every Sunday, Josh Thompson of Legacy City Church. We will walk through his own personal story that is filled with heartbreak and hard times.

Yet you will see how God moved and worked through it all and turned something very evil into an instrument for his good that will lead us to the life of the patriarch Joseph, a man destined to do great things for his family and nation, but only after he would be sold into slavery by his own brothers and imprisoned for a crime he was falsely accused of. So let's jump right into it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:02:33.255 - 00:02:35.743
Josh, thank you for joining us.

Josh Thompson
00:02:35.879 - 00:02:39.071
Thanks for having me, Aaron. It's a joy to be on the show. Appreciate it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:02:39.183 - 00:02:46.795
I kind of wanted to start with just what your weekly preparation to teach is.

Josh Thompson
00:02:47.255 - 00:03:48.575
Weekly preparation for my studies on Sunday.

Basically I will read the text during the week sometime, kind of get an understanding of the text, sometimes read different translations so that I can see it from different angles, and then I kind of have an idea of where I'm going with the text.

So my general outline is I'm obviously creating a giant question in the beginning, trying to figure out what the point of the sermon is, what the point of the text is really. Then the big question mark comes in the beginning. The text is the answer to that question.

And then I try to conclude with the answer or summarizing the points of the text. But one of the most important things in prep is obviously getting to the context, right? I mean, really understanding what it's saying.

So you need to read the before chapter, you need to read the after chapter, and you need to understand the book, because oftentimes we'll just pull one verse out and think that we've discovered something great, but we missed the entire context. You wouldn't do this in a children's book, so why would you do it in the Bible? Right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:03:48.955 - 00:03:51.879
Like so many people do that with Jeremiah 29:11.

Josh Thompson
00:03:51.967 - 00:04:15.375
Sure, yeah. They have no idea what's. What verses before that or what verses after, or what context it was written in, who wrote it, who they were speaking to.

It's been written to. Yeah, exactly. So those are very important things. I'm trying to find the context. This is first.

Then I will take steps to read other commentators to make sure that I'm not an heir. You know, it's. It's not wise to think that you've got it all figured out up front.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:04:15.495 - 00:04:18.287
So you don't want to read from first or second interpretations.

Josh Thompson
00:04:18.391 - 00:05:58.817
That's right. That's. That's exactly right. Yeah. So we. So I have a couple commentators that I really love, and I'll basically read through their commentaries.

And it's great. You get ideas, you get context.

You kind of see where things that you're missing or things that you already discovered that you saw in the text, which is a lot of fun, too. And then I start to go to work. It'll take me somewhere between four to eight hours to write the sermon down. So I will, yeah, start typing.

I pull out a word doc, and I literally start to go to work. And so again, I build my intro. I build the. Actually, I build the body of it first, and then the intro comes later. So the body.

Then I'll build the points. I'll kind of have my conclusion. I've summarized the whole thing. Then I'll build the introduction or the big question mark for the sermon.

After all the meat is meat and potatoes are taken care of. I start to sprinkle it with some seasoning. These are quotes, illustrations, obviously. I've already added scripture references kind of to every point.

What I'm ultimately trying to do in each point of the text as I see it through the scripture, is figure out what it meant then, what it means now, and how do we apply it to our lives. It's really that simple. What it meant then, what it means now in our context, in our culture, and how do we apply it in real time to our lives?

So that's kind of sermon prep. This ends up taking place. The heavy lifting happens Friday, Saturday, as I head into Sunday.

If I prepare too early in the week, to be honest, I get so much content and I just start writing and writing and writing and writing and then I find myself and then suddenly.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:05:58.841 - 00:06:00.273
We'Ve got a three hour sermon.

Josh Thompson
00:06:00.329 - 00:06:55.337
Yeah, you have to really trim it down. So I like, I've also been doing this for almost 20 years. So I like the repetition towards the end of the week. I like the pressure of it.

I like the build, the anticipation of Sunday. And I also enjoy putting down the freshest thoughts I have so that when Sunday comes, it's extremely fresh.

It's not something I was thinking about on Monday. It's something I was really working through Friday, Saturday. So yeah, it's not for everyone, but everybody finds their own voice.

Everybody finds their own rhythms and their own ways of preparing. And so start with all the basic Mechanics. Take your 10 to 20 hours a week and start to hone your craft.

And five years in, then 10 years in, you start to figure out, you know, your strengths and weaknesses and how to prepare better sermons. Now, the presentation is a whole nother game, but that's preparation.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:06:55.441 - 00:07:02.921
Do you kind of like obviously preach through your sermon on your own a couple of times or no? No, you don't do that.

Josh Thompson
00:07:02.953 - 00:08:24.245
Not anymore. Yeah, I used to. Yeah, I used to though. I used to. In the beginning, I would listen to every single sermon I preach.

So after I preach it, I would take the recording and go listen to it in a quiet place and just, you know, your ears like shatter at your own voice and trying to listen to yourself fumble and just cause all kinds of problems in the text. Don't go and listen to my early sermons. There's probably some heresy in there. I don't want to be stoned by anybody. But in the beginning, no.

Oh yes, I did rehearse or I would read through them. But now all it takes is one time reading through. And really that's happening as I'm preparing the text.

Now if I don't feel like I've got the entire thing in me, I will read through it basically one time. And I'm basically editing and any other little extra things I don't like.

I'm basically trimming off what I don't like, and I'm rewording things here and there. But I've been preaching probably two sermons a week for almost 20 years. So you do the calculation.

I started when I was 18, 19 years old, and I'm about to be 40. You know, it's like riding a bike, you know, and maybe not riding a bike. What's the bad situation? But it's like any craft, I should say.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:08:24.365 - 00:08:31.987
So are you the type of person that you prepare exactly what you want to say and how you want to say it, or do you kind of do bullet points?

Josh Thompson
00:08:32.091 - 00:09:06.405
And then I write down about 70 to 80% of my sermon on paper, so I know about 80% of what I'm going to say. And then I leave that little wiggle room. And for me, it's just, I will write the word explain at the end of a point, and so my mind clicks.

Explain this. Just walk away from the pulpit and start explaining. Building this out. I highlight in my sermons as well.

My text is in yellow, my points are in red, my quotes are in blue, and my story illustrations are in purple.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:09:07.105 - 00:09:11.165
And what color are the bad dad jokes that you always start with?

Josh Thompson
00:09:13.545 - 00:09:59.919
Those. Actually, they're not completely highlighted, but there is a blue tag on them. Yeah. So, yeah, the dad jokes are fun.

My pastor, Pastor Greg Laurie, actually encouraged me in that he said humor disarms people, you know, and it's good to use humor because a sermon is so serious and overwhelming for people at times. They don't know that you're not a mean or angry person. So a sermon is not a place to do standup comedy.

A sermon is a place to be serious and to make points and to exalt God's word. But at the same time, I want people to know I'm not really that mad at you. I'm not angry at you. So I put those dad jokes on the front, and it's fun.

The crowd looks forward to it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:10:00.007 - 00:10:44.001
Well, I think that's extra important because I remember, and I mentioned this in the intro that you had said recently, I think, a couple of times, both on Wednesday night and on Sunday, about your goal as you're preaching is to either convict you of sin and get you to repent or to condemn you to the point where you leave the church. There is no in between.

And I think with that in mind, that is important, bringing in that little bit of humor and the different things that you do to lighten what is an important, serious topic and a serious time. I mean, anytime we pull out the word, it is a serious time.

Josh Thompson
00:10:44.153 - 00:11:50.725
Yeah, the word of God, it does. It convicts to repentance or it condemns to judgment. And it's not my job to do that. It's my job to present the word of God and let it do that.

I let it take on its own tone and I just preach exactly what it says and let it do what it's supposed to do. It will accomplish its purpose. It will not return void. I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings for the sake of doing so.

To be a jerk on the pulpit, I don't want to do that. You know, I want people to come to know God. I want people to know the Lord Jesus. I want him, them to understand his grace and his love.

And so it is the kindness of God that leads people to repentance. Romans, chapter two.

And so I hope that they would see in me speaking truth that there is a judgment on the horizon and that we are condemned in our sin. That they would be thankful that I would.

That I would tell them the truth so that they would know they could repent and turn to God and have a relationship with him, be forgiven and get away from all that condemnation. So, yeah, you gotta let people know the bad news so they know what they're being safe from and where the good news really is.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:11:50.885 - 00:12:58.507
There's a video that went viral a few years ago with Penn Jillette. And for those that don't know, Penn Jillette, a famous magician, performer and atheist, and he put out a video that was talking about.

Someone had come up to him after one of his shows and gave him like a little Bible or a trap, I think it was a Bible. And said, I know you don't. I know you're an atheist, but I love you and I wanted to give this to you.

And it touched him because he's like, if you believe as we do that you are going to hell without Jesus. Like, how much do you have to hate someone to not speak the truth, even if the truth seems hurtful?

Because, I mean, we all have, like, basically our own gods of what we think, you know, will get us in, into heaven. And the gospel knocks all of that out. The gospel is offensive to people. We should not be, but the gospel itself is.

Josh Thompson
00:12:58.611 - 00:13:53.747
Yeah, yeah, we don't need to be mean.

We don't need to be jerks on the pulpit, but we can carry the tone of God, you know, and what he's doing in his text, what he's saying through his word, we can carry those tones. So that's what I try to do.

You know, I really try to insert myself in the text and explore what's happening, the emotion and the flavor of the text, and then present that to the crowd and they can see it with their own eyes. You know, I'm not. I'm not trying to do any, like, you know, switcheroo or any magic trick.

It's like, if it's an encouraging Chet text, I hope I wouldn't make it, you know, so condemning. I mean, it's an encouraging text, but the opposite is true as well.

Like, I shouldn't be taking a text that's very sobering and turn around and try to candy coat the thing, you know, to make it so that people don't see what God is saying. So, yeah, I like to say I'm just a delivery boy delivering the mail. That's it. That's my job as a pastor.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:13:53.851 - 00:14:03.497
And I'm sure you've gone through preaching certain passages that are always the like, oh, man, this is the. Someone's going to get offended at this.

Josh Thompson
00:14:03.561 - 00:15:04.293
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, especially in coming into la, you know. Yeah, we were. I wanted to. We want the church to grow. We want to win people for Christ.

You know, we want to see people come into relationship with him. And so there is a temptation to want to please the crowd. And pleasing the crowd really is a trap. The Bible actually says this.

The fear of man is a snare or a trap in Proverbs. So, you know, fearing what people think is kind of. You're setting yourself up for failure. So you gotta learn the hard way.

You try to please people, it still doesn't work. And they still get mad at you and they still leave the church. And so you're like, okay, forget it. I'm gonna try to please God now 100%.

And at least he's blessed, and at least he's pleased, you know, with what we're doing. And I believe his hand will be on the church when we do so. And those who are truly desiring to come to Christ will come.

They'll be drawn because they know where the truth is. And I believe the Holy Spirit will point people to churches that preach the truth.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:04.389 - 00:15:15.789
Well, you're talking about, like, especially coming to Los Angeles. I think this would be a good time to kind of go back and talk about the history of the church.

You're coming up, I think around seven and a half Years right now?

Josh Thompson
00:15:15.837 - 00:15:16.421
Yes.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:16.573 - 00:15:18.517
And so this fall will be eight.

Josh Thompson
00:15:18.621 - 00:15:19.637
Eight years. Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:19.781 - 00:15:24.089
What brought you to plant Legacy City Church?

Josh Thompson
00:15:24.177 - 00:17:00.207
I guess a couple skips and a jump. You know, I didn't. I didn't know I was going to be a pastor. I didn't think about this when I was young. Like, I'm going to be a pastor.

But I got sucked into the pastorate through young people. I just started loving and serving the high school and college kids and trying to minister and bring them to Christ. Before you know it, I'm a pastor.

And then I realized I had this teaching gift and preaching gift, and I should probably use that. And it was working. I'm like, okay, I guess I gotta do that now and then. And of course, I love it. I mean, I love ministering to people.

I love seeing people come close to Christ. But then I realized that there was. I don't know, there was some type of leadership ability or authority that came along with what I was doing.

And I could see. And a lot of people were saying that they thought I could lead a church even when I was young. They're like, oh, you're gonna lead a church?

You know, And I'd like, really. And I didn't know if that would happen.

So somewhere along the lines, the desires showed up in my heart that I either wanted to lead a church, take over a church, or I wanted to plant a church. I remember turning 30 and thinking, like, oh, man, this is it. Like, I think it's time for me to start thinking this direction.

I'd been having conversations with my wife about it, and before you know it, I don't know, it was a year or two late. Probably a year later, around 32 or something, she was like. She gave me a verse. It's the verse.

It's a verse in Genesis where Abraham, it said, he by faith left his land not knowing where he was going. He by faith, trusted God, believing that he would lead him, even though he was leaving his home or his land.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:17:00.351 - 00:17:03.583
Leaving everything he knew that made him that was comfortable.

Josh Thompson
00:17:03.759 - 00:17:58.691
Yes. And not knowing where he was going. So I'm like, oh, my. Oh, my gosh, this is wild. You know, like, lord, are you calling me to go?

Because my wife was now encouraging me to do so. And so that's when I started just trying to figure out where to go. So I grew up an hour and a half from here, Riverside, California.

A lot of time in Orange county, goofing off down there, surfing and hanging out with friends.

But most of my time was in Riverside and the main reason it wasn't exactly a spiritual one, I'll be honest, I thought, what is the closest city to me with the most people who have the most non believers an hour and a half from me is Los Angeles. There's 10 million people in the county, there's 4 million in the city. And majority of them, I mean, probably over 90% do not know Christ.

This is wild. It's like, talk about a mission field. It's right there.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:17:58.763 - 00:18:03.723
And even those that claim they do may not have a relationship with them.

Josh Thompson
00:18:03.819 - 00:19:15.883
Right, right. I mean, it's, you know, only God knows. But yes, you're right.

A lot of lukewarm Christians or people who claim they're Christian but don't have any connection with God. So, yeah, I went to my pastor and said, hey, I think I want to plant a church in la.

And he said, well, you know, why don't you just start looking, drive down on your day off and go look for a building. I was like, wow, okay. He actually said this to me. He said, I don't think a lot of people can plant a church, but I think you could do it.

So that was my confidence, you know, my. The Lord was with me, of course, but it was cool to see my pastor say, I can see this in you. I think you could probably do it.

And so we searched for eight months and that's how we landed and found Bridges Academy. But it was aaron. I mean, 70, 80, 100 no's, I don't know how many. We're just driving around for eight months making phone calls.

Hey, can we have a church here? No.

We started in Venice or Santa Monica, went down to Venice beach, went over to downtown LA Arts district, searching there, went over to Silver Lake, searched in there. And it was just, no, no, no, no, no, no. It wasn't like, yeah, the price is 10,000amonth. Yeah, the price is 20,000amonth. It was none of that.

It was just, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:19:15.939 - 00:19:17.315
They just weren't open to it.

Josh Thompson
00:19:17.395 - 00:19:18.963
Nobody wanted church. Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:19:19.139 - 00:19:21.195
Were these mostly like schools?

Josh Thompson
00:19:21.355 - 00:19:56.324
Schools, empty church buildings. One in particular we were going after, it was a Presbyterian church, but it really wasn't anything happening in there. They were not good.

Yeah, schools in the arts district. We were looking at all the brick buildings down there, but realized like all this industrial area, probably not going to work, you know.

So it was just no's for eight months. And then one place said yes. And I didn't even know where Studio City was. I didn't know where Sherman Oaks was. Honestly, I had no idea.

I didn't know there were 70 cities in LA, in LA County.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:19:56.376 - 00:20:00.495
I don't even know there are 70 cities in LA. I've been here for 14 years.

Josh Thompson
00:20:00.548 - 00:21:28.521
I think it's 70 territories. Yeah. In LA. But it's funny because each one of those territories claims that they are la. Yeah. You know, and they're all that odds.

It's really funny, but I didn't know where Studio City was. I don't know where Sherman Oaks was. So if you're like, how'd you get such a strategic location? You're like, right there.

Laurel Canyon, Ventura Boulevard. I'm like, we didn't. Like. We just called around and this was the only place to say yes to us.

It was like, hi, Calling to see if you guys would let us use the jam. Your facilities, you know, to. We want to start a church there. Could we rent the facility? Yes. Wait, what? Yeah, you can rent it. Are you serious?

Yeah, yeah, you can rent it on Sunday. It's available to rent. Okay, what's the price? They name the price. Really? We only need six hours. Can we do this? Yeah. This hourly price for six hours.

Okay, we're going to do this. And I called the team back at home and I told my pastors about it, and they said, lock it in right now. We're launching the church in two months.

And I put my house up for sale. It sold in eight days. And we. We believe we could take that money and live off it for a year.

We could pay the church rent, we could live off of it, and we could sustain ourselves for a little while. And the church back at home helped us for about five months. And then they said, that's it. Fly out of the nest, let's go.

And they pushed us out of the nest. And by the grace of God, we've been okay for eight years now.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:21:28.633 - 00:21:32.033
Now the location that we're in right now is the barn.

Josh Thompson
00:21:32.089 - 00:21:32.521
Yes.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:21:32.633 - 00:21:57.965
And I wanted to do it here because I kind of wanted an aspect of. This is where you preach on the midweek men's group.

And I kind of liked the aspect of us sitting down where you preach and kind of having that vibe in that environment. Talk about the story. Because this was kind of a God thing too, right?

Josh Thompson
00:21:58.045 - 00:24:00.313
Yep. We had the school on Sundays, but the gym, that's where we're meeting for church. But we had no place to store stuff.

We had no plate, no office, you know. No, no. No place to really do Bible study. So I went searching on Ventura Boulevard, trying To find office space. And it started at 4000amonth.

And no joke, I had an 1100 square foot facility. Tell me it was 39,000. 39. Oh, 3900. No, no, 39,000. I'm like, what? He was right in the heart of Studio City. 39,000amonth. I'm like, who can pay this?

You know? So I said, forget it. I'm going to our members. So we go to the church and I say, off the pulpit, hey, does anybody have just.

I just want concrete and four walls. I don't care what it looks like. I don't care what it is. Give me concrete and four walls.

And all of a sudden, one of our members came up, Tom, and he's like, hey, I know a lady down the street that has this back house barn. Artists rented out to do music, to paint in there, to do all kinds of stuff. And it's empty right now, so if you guys want it.

So we came over here, lo and behold, a 1928 barn. This thing was built 1928, and there's still barn wood in here from the original. And we came in, and it was absolutely trash.

I mean, well, it was bad. It was a barn. Yeah. We put a new roof on. We put a bathroom in here. We built out a little kitchen. We built out an office. We resurfaced the floors.

We painted everything. We reinforced the structure. And team, about, like, 15 guys came over here from the church, and we just worked on it all day.

And Ben and I and a couple of the other guys, blood, sweat, and tears throughout the rest of the time, fixing it up and making it work. But, yeah, it's our little place. And this is a legacy barn. And I think we've been here about five years, and so it's been great for us.

Bible studies happen here all week long. And we're doing the podcast in here. We shot all of our online church during the pandemic in here.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:24:00.409 - 00:24:26.893
Okay, yeah, yeah, that was before I started coming. I came in June after. I think you guys started back up Easter Sunday. So it was like three months later, two months later, that I.

It was actually last week a year ago, I looked it up. An old text message. I'm like, oh. I texted friends that I was checking out the church finally on, like, June 6th last year.

Josh Thompson
00:24:27.029 - 00:24:50.543
It's a multipurpose use. You know, we do parties in here for the church, for the leadership we've done. We.

This is a mini studio, you know, where we recorded all of our worship. We recorded sermons in here, and Then obviously, we have Bible studies going on in here. We have our basics. Roots class goes on in here.

We have financial peace goes on in here. We have men's and women's groups. We have youth groups. So it gets its use.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:24:50.639 - 00:24:53.207
Did you record all your Bible chants.

Josh Thompson
00:24:53.311 - 00:24:58.599
In here, or was that before Bible chants were recorded? When I was 22 years old.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:24:58.687 - 00:25:01.055
Okay, so that predates the barn a little bit.

Josh Thompson
00:25:01.135 - 00:25:07.093
Yes. That thing is like 18 years old or something crazy like that. That was a long time ago.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:25:07.229 - 00:25:22.405
For those that don't know the Bible chants, well, if you visit on a Sunday, you get to hear one. It's our benediction from Numbers, chapter six, that the Lord bless you and keep you. May his face shine upon you.

Josh Thompson
00:25:22.485 - 00:25:24.493
Be gracious unto you and give you peace.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:25:24.669 - 00:25:33.415
I was purposely not going to try singing it because this would then be the last episode of this podcast. That's not the only one.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:25:33.495 - 00:25:33.863
There's.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:25:33.919 - 00:25:35.335
How many of these are there?

Josh Thompson
00:25:35.415 - 00:26:29.753
It's like there's like 40 or 50 of them. And yeah, you can look them up on itunes. Just go to the podcast section of itunes, type in Scripture worship, and you'll see Josh Thompson show up.

Don't make fun of me, though. So I'm literally 22 years old, shouting at the top of my lungs in my buddy's bedroom where we were recording with Pro Tools.

And I don't know how many people have downloaded it, but we made CDs and we passed them out. I mean, again, this is almost 20 years ago. And so it's been duplicated and passed on so many times.

But, yeah, I love them, you know, because while they're cheesy, they sound funny. You actually do memorize scripture very quickly doing it. You're catechizing your own mind.

You're causing yourself, your heart, and your mind to take on a scripture through song, which you can quote, but you can also sing and you can worship and you can pray through. I mean, it's amazing.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:26:29.849 - 00:26:34.129
So, yeah, we do. At the men's group, we do, like, what, five or six of them?

Josh Thompson
00:26:34.217 - 00:26:41.369
We have about probably 10 to 12 that we've worked through. But, yeah, on a regular basis, we do about five or six each night. Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:26:41.457 - 00:27:19.289
And I found myself.

I barely want to acknowledge it to myself, but I'll find myself just randomly playing it in my head where all of a sudden it's like one of them is in my head, and I'm like, how did that get in there? Instead of like a random song, it's scripture. If it wasn't set to the music.

It probably would not have been that, because there's scripture that I've decided, oh, I want to memorize this verse. Try and memorize it. And it's like I can't even remember if I could recite the verse right now.

But the song was like, I could probably do a couple of them.

Josh Thompson
00:27:19.457 - 00:29:05.215
Yeah.

There's so many times in life since I learned them, you know, where I'm by myself and again, could be working through something, could be praying, and all of a sudden there's this kind of spontaneous breakout of singing one of those or chanting one of those songs or even quoting the scripture to myself. You know, it's the other brothers who know these songs as well.

I have a brother, a pastor in Orange county, who will call me and just start chanting on my voicemail. He just leaves it for me. And he does this one all the time. I will bless the Lord at all times. His praise shall continually be in my mouth, my soul.

I shall make her boast in thee. Lord, the humble shall hear thereof and be glad. O magnify the Lord with me. Let us exalt his name together.

I sought the Lord and he heard me and delivered me from all my fears. And he will just go off chanting that for 45 seconds or a minute and then just hangs up. But it's powerful, right?

It's another brother singing over me the scripture, the word of God. And, you know, it erupts in here. We get it going and the guys are going off, and it's a celebration time. It's a time of being edified and built up.

And who would have known that chanting together can be, so, I guess, encouraging? It's a form of fellowship almost.

You know, like, I could see a hundred men standing up together, chanting songs, looking around at each other, you know, just rejoicing in what the Lord's done and encouraging and building up each other. When you see another brother chanting that in your face or towards you, it's reinforcing. It's like rebar. I don't know. It just. It just.

It establishes the structure of a man, that's for sure.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:05.305 - 00:29:15.363
Yeah, it was kind of interesting at my. I know I showed you the video of this at my birthday party. One of our brothers, like, hey, let's do the right. The right.

Josh Thompson
00:29:15.419 - 00:29:15.843
That's right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:15.899 - 00:29:17.603
What do you. What do you call it? Not the pub song.

Josh Thompson
00:29:17.659 - 00:29:53.283
Yeah, yeah. This is First John 3:1. Yeah, I call it. I call it. It's almost like a. It sounds like a pirate's chant or something.

And as if we're on a pirate ship somewhere on some boat and we are just going off. I say, everybody, grab your mugs, grab your brewski, grab your root beer, grab your whatever you want to grab, and let's chant to the glory of God.

And it just feels again like a. Again like we're on a pirate ship somewhere chanting to the glory of God.

And first John 3:1, behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us that we should be called sons of God. Yeah, it's a great chant.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:53.379 - 00:30:15.897
Well, it was so great because we had a handful of guys that were chanting it and half the group were not saved. At least a good like 25 to 45% of the people at my party and there's like 40 people there.

So it was a witness to at least like 10 to 15 to 20 people, you know, saying like, what are these people doing?

Josh Thompson
00:30:15.961 - 00:30:16.425
Right?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:30:16.545 - 00:30:19.433
And we're singing scripture to them.

Josh Thompson
00:30:19.529 - 00:30:59.573
If we had a thousand men, if we had 10,000 men, if we had 50,000 men in a stadium, chanting all at the same time, you break the stadium, you know, you can almost feel it as we even talk about it, how powerful that would be, chanting the word of God and all of these men hiding it in their hearts and encouraging each other with it. So I'm hoping there will be an outbreak of that. We still got to figure it out. I got to find 100, 200 men.

We need to find some cool looking pub or library, all wood, you know, like, and we need to get in there or maybe some cathedral and just chant at the top of our lungs and record that. And that'd be a joy. Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:30:59.669 - 00:31:23.463
Even just when we do it here in the barn on Wednesday nights, it's. I remember at first I didn't know it really any of the scripture references. I knew some of the scripture references, but I didn't know them by art.

So I just listened and just having all the men's voices in unison, even the ones that can't sing well, like mine, it's powerful. It's amazing. It's beautiful.

Josh Thompson
00:31:23.549 - 00:31:26.595
Yeah, I love it. I'm thankful for it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:31:26.675 - 00:31:45.895
So I want to dial back a little bit and I think this might dovetail into our biblical study here.

But I want to talk a little bit about like your early days as a Christian, like how you came to Christ and what those few formative years looked like.

Josh Thompson
00:31:46.315 - 00:34:16.857
Yeah. So I was, I'm raised in a Christian home. I grew up.

My dad's a worship leader and I grew up in a Pentecostal church of like 30 people and called Believers Faith Center. And my dad, again, was forced to play organ as a child and would transition into piano. He played the big organ. Incredible. He can still play it.

And my dad's an incredible musician, taught me, my brothers, to play. But we grew up in the church. And I always thought, look, I loved my Pentecostal family. They loved us very well.

But they did some weird stuff that I totally didn't understand as a kid. I know was gone. Like, this is weird, you know, but they loved us. Well, I can say that they loved us, man.

And the love of Christ was beaming through them, no doubt. But what it caused me to do as a teenager is get kind of like, I don't know, I thought God was weird to some degree. I'm like, that's God.

That's weird. You know, like, I don't like that.

So I wasn't exactly 100% in, but the first great moment interaction I had with God was when a missionary from Sri Lanka had come to the church I was at. His name is Leslie Keagle. I still remember this day because it was so impactful.

And he preached a sermon and was just basically telling testimony of what the Lord was doing in Sri Lanka and how many family members had been martyred and. Or beaten for their faith and had given their lives for Christ. And I'm sitting over here in America, like, what?

These people are giving their whole lives for Jesus. And I was moved by that talk.

And afterwards he said, if anybody wants to be prayed over after the service, come down here if you need to receive some prayer. So I walked forward after the sermon, said, would you pray for me? And he prayed for me.

And I'll never forget something happened that night where I believed on Christ more than I'd ever believed before. The next day, I wanted to take my Bible to school.

I was in high school, and I literally picked up my Bible that my dad had bought me, and I took it to high school. And I'm probably like 17 years old at this point. 16. 17. And yeah, I became a radical from that point on. And I mean, radical.

I don't know what happened, but the Holy Spirit of God showed up for sure. But I did some crazy things as a young person for the glory of Christ. In my high school, we started a Bible club on campus.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:34:16.921 - 00:34:18.641
I was going to ask if you guys had one.

Josh Thompson
00:34:18.713 - 00:34:33.861
Yeah, we started a Bible club. I would teach at it, me and my buddy. And I was vice president of my school my senior year. So one time I decided to take.

We had access to butcher paper. You know, the big rolls of butcher paper that you make signs out of.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:34:33.933 - 00:34:36.677
With the giant, like, marker paint. Markers.

Josh Thompson
00:34:36.741 - 00:35:19.279
That's exactly it. Yeah. So I decided to write the ten Commandments on this butcher paper, and I posted it on the wall literally 20ft high. It covered the entire.

In the school parking lot, so that when everyone showed up in the parking lot, they would see the ten commandments. And I wrote examples of breaking the commandment under each one. And the. The vice principal came up to me, said, josh, you gotta take that down.

And I'm like, Or it was the principal. You gotta take it out. No, I'm not gonna take it down. No, you. Josh, you gotta take that down. You know, you can't do that. I'm not gonna take it down.

Well, I might have to suspend you if you don't take it down. Like what?

I'm like, this stubborn kid just thinking I'm doing something great for the glory of God, which I hope you can use it, you know, or you did. But, yeah, I didn't take it down.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:35:19.327 - 00:35:27.145
I remember going through that phase when I first. Because I was going into my seventh grade year when I got saved.

Josh Thompson
00:35:27.225 - 00:35:27.673
Okay.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:35:27.769 - 00:35:37.405
And I kind of did that entire thing where I was, like, on fire. And in high school and the Christian club. And then when I felt the Christian club wasn't really strong, I tried starting rival Christian club.

Josh Thompson
00:35:39.705 - 00:35:42.921
Tearing down their banners. You know, that's funny.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:35:43.033 - 00:35:58.273
Always did. Our school had air bands where you were basically, you lip sync and perform to a song, and you could do two songs.

So all four years, we did two Christian songs. And it's a little cringe to look back on.

Josh Thompson
00:35:58.329 - 00:35:58.793
Totally.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:35:58.889 - 00:36:03.841
Because it was not something that was. The talent wasn't quite there.

Josh Thompson
00:36:03.913 - 00:36:05.161
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:36:05.233 - 00:36:09.393
But it was still something that we're like, this is us serving the Lord.

Josh Thompson
00:36:09.449 - 00:36:56.987
Yeah, we. We do crazy things, you know, and, you know, we're trying to do it for the Lord, you know, but that. That was who I was in high school.

Played football for four years, was vice president of my school. It was a social experiment mostly for me. But these are some of my formative years.

What really grabbed me was I was working across the street at Stater Brothers, a grocery store, bagging groceries. I'm like, 17 again. 17 and a half now, maybe. And Harvest Christian Fellowship was across the street, Pastor Greg Laurie's church.

And I went over there on my lunch break. I'd never been there. Went in there and heard clear, crystal clear preaching. I never. No weirdness just crystal clear preaching of the word of God.

I'm like, wow, somebody's opening the Bible and just teaching it. We don't have any weirdness. And I was so encouraged by that.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:36:57.091 - 00:36:59.467
Not taking advantage of the gifts and.

Josh Thompson
00:36:59.571 - 00:37:37.579
No, it was just nothing. It was just the word of God. You know, Greg's down to earth and his humor and all of those things. He's one of the greatest communicators, no doubt.

So I was blessed by that. Somebody invited me to a high school camp and I went. And next camp I became a camp counselor. And then before you know it, I was on staff as a.

In the high school ministry, and the rest is history, you know, so those were my formative years. I grew up Pentecostal. It was a four square church that Leslie Kegel spoke in.

Then I stepped into Calvary Chapel with Greg Laurie, and I was there for about 15 years before we planted legacy in Los Angeles. Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:37:37.667 - 00:37:41.731
Well, you've also talked a little bit about some struggles that you had.

Josh Thompson
00:37:41.803 - 00:37:42.179
Sure.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:37:42.267 - 00:37:43.939
You want to talk about that a little bit?

Josh Thompson
00:37:44.027 - 00:38:55.615
Yeah. I mean, my life, you know, it's crazy when I look back on all the trials and tribulation and.

I mean, a lot of people suffer in life, and they're all unique to us. But, yeah, mine, they definitely formed who I am today. My mom passed when I was six years old. She died in a car accident.

And we remember that night, me and my brothers, the cop coming to our door, knocking on the door. I was six, Jake was four and Jesse was two.

And so my dad was left with three boys by himself, and he's a truck driver, so he had to be gone sometimes overnight or a couple days at a time. So my grandma stepped in to try to help raise us. So we didn't grow up with much. We were the kids. Yeah, we just didn't have much growing up.

We weren't. We weren't allowed to ask for anything because we knew the answer was no.

And we worked through government food stamps and government food, and we went to public school and we walked to school. We didn't know how bad it was really. You know, we were. Me and my brothers were having a good time the whole time running around.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:38:55.735 - 00:38:58.727
Would you say that's like the innocence of youth type of thing?

Josh Thompson
00:38:58.911 - 00:39:00.683
Yeah. What do you mean by that?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:39:00.819 - 00:39:14.995
Is a lot of times I saw something recently where it was like, we all think when we're kids, we think adults have the answers, and then we become adults and we realize that we're just making it up and that no one has the answers.

Josh Thompson
00:39:15.075 - 00:39:15.459
Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:39:15.547 - 00:39:22.707
And we don't really see the bigger picture when we're younger. We only, we view things through our limited vision.

Josh Thompson
00:39:22.771 - 00:39:23.251
Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:39:23.363 - 00:39:35.337
And so there's kind of a, not necessarily like a rose colored class, but like you said, you don't know how bad things are. You don't know that things could be better. So it's just the way it is, right?

Josh Thompson
00:39:35.361 - 00:40:52.379
Yeah. We had nothing to contrast it other than we knew other people had moms and we didn't, you know, so we didn't understand that.

We knew other people had cool stuff, you know, but really a godsend was that one of our buddies we grew up with across the street, he's basically our brother now, his name's Kyle. And it's like he didn't have any brothers. And so there was three of us.

And yeah, you know, he had the basketball court and all the fun, you know, sports. And we'd go pool over at his house and video games. So we had a blast doing that.

So that's why, you know, maybe we didn't, we didn't notice how little we had. I mean, I guess we did at certain times, but it was offset by a lot of those things. The Lord has blessed us.

As if you ask me or my brothers, like, how was your childhood? Looking back, we would say, man, it was pretty crazy. But in it we didn't know how crazy it was.

So, you know, into high school, my dad lost his job and so we lost the family car. Then he couldn't get to work. Then we lost the house and so we had to live in a hotel.

I remember I just graduated high school and my family, we were in a hotel for about three weeks because we didn't have any place to stay. My dad went and lived with one of his friends and me and my brothers all went and lived with our friends.

So we, we had to part ways as a family basically at 18 years old.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:40:52.467 - 00:40:57.291
So this is right after like within a year or two of you getting saved?

Josh Thompson
00:40:57.363 - 00:42:17.073
That's right, yeah. Yeah. The Lord was there and I don't know, my dad trusted the Lord through it all. He was just clinging onto the Lord.

I was getting involved in the church I was trying to go to. I got accepted to Cal State San Bernardino. I got accepted to a bunch of Cal States. I was trying to get in. I did school for a year, dropped out.

I couldn't figure it out. And I started working instruction and making money doing that. And then I was heavily involved in the church. I didn't have A together family.

We didn't have any of the good things in life other than what came from the outside, but we had the church and we had the Lord. And so me and my brothers have been on our own since then.

But we love our dad, we love each other, and we still hang out and party and jam all the time we get together. But, yeah, that was a big one. There were two more great moments in life that basically, you know, we've really struggled through.

The next was after being married my beautiful wife Katie, for six years. We basically realized through the process we weren't able to have kids.

And so it's a really hard, heavy burden to carry because of all things, you're like, God, don't you want me to disciple children? I want to do this. I want kids. I want to disciple kids.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:42:17.249 - 00:42:26.833
It almost seems like the people who want a family the most are. Tend to be the ones that have the hardest time having one sometimes, you.

Josh Thompson
00:42:26.849 - 00:42:44.977
Know, and then you have people, you know, just like, they don't want kids and they don't want to be pregnant, and they don't, you know, all of that. And then you have people who are just loaded on drugs and they can get pregnant. Drop of a hat.

And so you ask all those questions, like, lord, why can't we get pregnant? Like, what. What is. What is going on here? Yeah, we.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:42:45.041 - 00:42:49.233
It's hard not to become bitter at God during that, too.

Josh Thompson
00:42:49.329 - 00:42:50.529
Yeah. Why would you say no to this.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:42:50.577 - 00:43:06.827
Or to take your own. Like, you actually see with. With Abraham, they didn't trust, you know, God's promise. So they're like, well, we'll do it our own way. And.

And you do that, and, yeah, it might work, but you're going to cause a lot of drama, a lot of hurt.

Josh Thompson
00:43:06.931 - 00:44:56.797
So we.

We had to wait on the Lord and trust him through that process when all of, you know, all the people around us who were near to us all got pregnant within the first year or two of marriage, and they're all having kids. And here we are by ourselves and just wondering, like, wow, I never thought in a million years this would be me, maybe Lord, are you saying no?

Are you saying no, we're never going to have kids? Like, I'm never going to see my image of my face or my attributes in a child? Is that what you're saying?

You kind of don't know how big of a deal it is until you're in it and you're just, like, sitting there and you had this idea that you were going to have a Family, you're going to have grandkids, that all that was going to happen, and you realize it's not happening for you and it could never happen for you. You have to start thinking adoption and all of these other things, and it's a whole world of things to work through.

But it was a struggle because a lot of the things that I wanted and were hoping would happen and life were happening for me. My dreams per se were coming true. But one of the big dreams of my wife is that she would just be able to have her own baby.

And when you have a wife and you can't do that for your wife, you know, you're basically ready to conquer any mountain and sail nec for your family, for your wife, and you can't fix this one, it starts to break you. So those were. That was a very heavy burden.

And those who are working through that, even listening to this podcast, you know, you know, we know your struggle. We know what you're working through. We're praying for you. I want to encourage you. The Lord hears your prayers.

He loves you, that he has the best plan in store, no doubt. But it's not easy. We mourn with you and we believe God's going to carry you through this season. This is a major one that we worked through after.

Even through the church plant. A lot of people didn't know, but it was happening. And the biggest weight that I carried. I don't know if you want to hear all this, Aaron.

This is a lot.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:44:56.941 - 00:44:58.773
I guess it's what you feel comfortable sharing.

Josh Thompson
00:44:58.829 - 00:48:17.023
Yeah. Yeah. The biggest burden in the most recent time of my life is it was one month into the church plant. We had planted the church. We were so excited.

All these hundreds of people showing up. It was crazy in Studio City. It's working in la. We're one month in and I don't have a worship leader that week.

And so I'm like, man, who's going to lead worship? My guy can't do it. And so I called up my brother Jesse, and I'm like, jess, you got to come and lead worship. He's a great musician.

So he's like, okay, let's do it. He drove out from actually Nevada to come and lead worship for us. He's like, I can't find a keys player.

And then he's like, I'm going to ask Jake, what do you say? And I'm like, yeah, let's do this. So he calls up my other brother, Jacob, who lived down in San Diego, and Jake drove up on that Sunday.

So it was the first time ever that me and my brothers were on stage ministering together all at the same time. First time ever. My dad's in the crowd. It was fantastic. It was like, my dad loves the Lord, you know, he loves worship.

So my brother is a leading worship. I'm preaching. Everybody's there. I mean, it was so cool, right?

Well, what I didn't know is that two days later, on a Tuesday morning, my brother Jess would call me and say, they can't find Jake. He's missing. He's gone. And I'm like, what? We were just with him on Sunday. What are you talking about? He was just leading worship on Sunday?

No, he's gone. We found out Tuesday night they had found him. He had jumped off the bridge in San Diego and they had found him. He took his own life.

And this is one month into the church plant, and I was just with my brothers on Sunday. I thought this was the beginning to them leading worship with me and us ministering together. And, yeah, it was.

It basically stole all of the excitement out of the church plant. It took everything away.

It was like, when I reflect on it, even now, it's almost like the carpet being pulled so hard that really, you can do nothing but just be on your knees and just be like, God, you gotta show up, or I'm just gonna fold. Like, I'm just. Forget this whole thing. I don't want to do this anymore. It's not fun. It was the most difficult time, I mean, for sure. In ministry.

For sure. Yeah. In my life. Because I'm a pastor. I work hard to save people.

And when you can't save your own brother, you know, you ask all the questions, why you're supposed to be building a church. How are you going to build a church now and think through all of that?

So I preached the next Sunday, and I preached a sermon called I'll see you soon. And I did his funeral the following week.

It was crazy because though it was so dark and overwhelming, I felt the spirit of God there, and I felt legacy as a whole, the church as a whole, go like this. It was like the suffering and the pain in my life basically brought us all together as a family.

And before you know it, people are now trying to encourage me. They're trying to pray for me. They're trying. And they're all concerned, and they're all together.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:48:17.119 - 00:48:20.103
They're doing what you felt like your job was to do to them.

Josh Thompson
00:48:20.159 - 00:49:14.159
It's amazing, you know, it was amazing. So it did steal all the excitement out of the church plant. But it. I don't know else to say it.

It like, sobered up my mind to a place where I was like, okay, this is not a game anymore. Like, we are here to minister in la. We're here to love and serve people. We are here to preach the gospel and see people come to Jesus.

And so the mission was more clear, more than ever before. But, yeah, man, it's been a lot. You know, it's been a lot over the years. I didn't realize how much it was.

And then there's all the mini storms, you know, all the way through all of that. But those are kind of the four major storms of my life to this point. I'm sure there's some more on the horizon. The Lord is our anchor.

He carries us through the storm. He is the captain. He is the guide, and he will. He will carry us through. Everyone will go through storms. Everybody will go through pain.

But how are you going to get through it without the Lord?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:49:14.247 - 00:49:31.547
I almost feel like what you're describing, with what happened at the funeral and then also with the church just kind of closing ranks around you and probably each other. I think it's safe to say that this is something that obviously the enemy meant for evil.

Josh Thompson
00:49:31.611 - 00:49:32.215
Right?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:49:32.515 - 00:49:36.627
And. But God had designs to make it for good.

Josh Thompson
00:49:36.691 - 00:50:57.329
That's right, absolutely. Yeah. It's hard to accept it as being a part of God's ultimate plan. It's hard to accept it as being a part of God's ultimate story.

It's very difficult to explain the details of it all and how that works into God's plan.

But, you know, the cross is difficult to figure out as well, you know, because if you're standing there as a disciple, watching the Messiah be crucified and beaten before you, you're looking to the sky saying, how can this be a part of the story? You're the author, you know, like, you're the finisher of our faith. What are you doing? But looking back, you see how God can use.

And yes, use it for his glory, use it for ultimate good. And of course, the cross bringing salvation to the whole world.

But, yeah, for me, again, the Lord definitely used all the pain and all the suffering in my life for good. I mean, it's prepared me for thousands of storms in the future. It allows me to be able to sympathize, empathize with other people.

It also helps me to see God's goodness as he carries us through the storms. So it gives me confidence that he will do so. In the future. Yeah. What the enemy meant for evil.

Trying to tear everything down, tear my family down, tear my brother's family down. God can take it all, all the broken pieces, you put them back together and make it for good.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:50:57.417 - 00:51:14.521
Well, there's a certain aspect too, where you would just come to Los Angeles, and I wholeheartedly believe that la, because of Hollywood, is the front line in the spiritual war battle.

Josh Thompson
00:51:14.593 - 00:51:14.945
Right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:51:15.025 - 00:52:22.545
Because those working in the industry of which you have a lot of members of your congregation that you're ministering to, they can influence the culture of the entire world. That's why I am here in Los Angeles. That's my mission, that's my goal, to find a way to influence the culture in some way through my work.

Coming here, like, you're a target on the back, right? And Satan's absolutely going to try and take you out.

He's going to try and destroy the good work that you're set out to do by ministering to the people of Hollywood and which. Well, the people of Los Angeles, which includes the people of Hollywood. Yeah, this absolutely is something that it's probably impacted.

Like you said, you realize it's not a game, this is serious. And so is that probably about where you kind of solidified your approach, the sermons with the conviction and the condemnation?

Josh Thompson
00:52:23.085 - 00:52:42.683
I would say that again, it definitely. It narrowed my focus long term, that's for sure. Like, I could see. I could see that this was an uphill climb and this was a war.

And this is not a game anymore. You know, this is not just fun, you know, exciting.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:52:42.819 - 00:52:44.575
You're not playing church.

Josh Thompson
00:52:44.915 - 00:54:03.001
Yeah. This is real life and this is eternity for people. And even my family's, you know, now heavily involved. And so.

But, you know, I would also say that that first year, like, sent me into kind of a tailspin.

I mean, to be honest, you know, like, I'm trying to figure out a church plant, trying to figure out if we'll be taken care of financially, trying to figure out where we're going to get chairs from, trying to figure out how to get the projector up. You know, I'm trying to figure out how to cancel people in the middle of that. Who's going to.

Who's going to stay faithful, who's going to leave the church, who's going to try to tear down the church. I mean, there's just so much stuff in the first two years. It's like starting a business in la.

You're trying to, like, gain your footing, you know, and you don't know your Rhythms. You don't know what's going on. And then throw a giant bomb in the middle of the whole thing.

When we thought we had everything together, it's like, now, here's a bomb, you know, emotionally. And so it was hard to get back on track. And I don't think I really got fully back on track probably till year three, to be honest.

Year three is when we had lost a lot of our team initially that had come out a lot of the brothers. There's probably about 15 of us or 20 of us who were coming out to plant the church, and majority of them were not able to make it because LA's hard.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:03.113 - 00:54:03.521
Yeah.

Josh Thompson
00:54:03.593 - 00:54:08.217
How do you find work? How do you get a place to stay? How do you bring kids out here? All that stuff.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:08.241 - 00:54:10.633
How do you afford a place to stay once you find it?

Josh Thompson
00:54:10.689 - 00:54:31.381
Totally. You know, so it's a whole nother world. And so we lost a bunch of people. And then, yeah, it was about year three. I kind of found my footing.

And you try to please a bunch of people, it doesn't work. And you say, forget this. I'm going to please God alone, and I'm going to get focused on him. And then the magic happens.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:31.573 - 00:54:48.659
Well, I feel like we need to transition into our scriptural study because we've talked a lot longer than I expected to, but this has been some really good stuff. And I almost feel like, you know, we. We kind of danced around one of the. The key verses in the story.

Josh Thompson
00:54:48.747 - 00:54:49.203
Yes.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:49.299 - 00:54:51.419
Of Joshua.

Josh Thompson
00:54:51.587 - 00:54:52.355
Joseph.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:52.475 - 00:54:56.083
Joseph. Why did I say Joshua? That's not even on my screen.

Josh Thompson
00:54:56.139 - 00:55:01.575
Because that's my name. That's why he said it. Yes.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:55:01.955 - 00:55:19.357
The.

The story of Joseph covers quite a bit, but, you know, let's give just kind of a Cliff Notes version of who he is and dive into the scripture where necessary.

Josh Thompson
00:55:19.461 - 00:56:02.449
Yeah. So Joseph is. He's the youngest brother, I believe, of 12, and he's the favorite of his dad.

And his brothers were jealous of him because his dad made him a. A coat of many colors. Coat and Technicolor.

He would wear his coat and dance around, and his brothers would get all mad at him, you know, because he had the favor of his father. One day, Joseph says, I had a dream, and I had a dream. And the dream showed that all of you were bowing down to me. And the brother's like, what?

We're gonna kill you, dude. What are you talking about? We're gonna bow to you. He says, yeah, not only you, but also mom and dad are gonna bow down to me, too.

And they're like, oh, forget this kid. You know, we're fed up with him.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:56:02.497 - 00:56:06.497
So one day, even dad rebuked him for that even.

Josh Thompson
00:56:06.601 - 00:56:32.835
Yeah, right, right. And he. Right. He was probably out of line as a son for doing that. But the truth is, he actually had those dreams. They were real.

So he's just telling them what happened.

I don't know how long a time period had gone by, but one day in the field, the brothers realized there's an opportunity to get rid of their little brother who annoying and whom they hate. And they wish they could, you know, get rid of him because he's going to be pulling into their inheritance and who knows what.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:56:32.955 - 00:56:36.987
And especially being their favorite. That probably played into this a lot.

Josh Thompson
00:56:37.091 - 00:56:38.323
Totally. Absolutely.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:56:38.379 - 00:56:39.855
Even though he was the youngest.

Josh Thompson
00:56:40.195 - 00:57:29.233
Yes. And so they find a pit and they throw him in this pit.

They rip off his jacket, and they see a caravan, a slavery caravan coming by, and they sell him to that caravan. And they take blood and put it on his coat and take it back to his father and say, joseph is dead. And father weeps.

Of course, you know, his favorite boy is dead. The brothers hid this. And Joseph, as you had spoken about earlier, gets sent off into slavery, into prison. And he's sitting in prison for 20 years.

He also stepped into Potiphar's house for a little while, where he gained favor by just loving the Lord.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:57:29.369 - 00:57:35.585
And everything that he touched basically turned to gold. It succeeded, it seemed.

Josh Thompson
00:57:35.625 - 00:58:57.469
That's right. The favor of the Lord was upon him. And he ends up in Potiphar's house.

And the wife likes him because he's handsome, and she tries to get him to sleep with her. And Joseph is like, I can't do this and defile the Lord. I'm not going to do this. And he runs out of the house, I believe, naked.

He loses his robe and he's running outside. And when Potiphar comes home, who's a general or a chief in Pharaoh's army, his wife says, he tried to rape me.

And so he gets accused of rape, though we know it wasn't true. And he gets sent into prison. And he sits there for almost 20 years. And in prison, there he is wondering why he was sold into slavery by his brothers.

He's wondering, what happened at Potiphar's house? How could he be accused of rape? He's wondering, what am I doing sitting here in prison, wasting my life away? Why would you do this to me, God?

Why would you allow all this to happen to me? What did I do to deserve this? I Didn't do anything. I was just trying to be a good boy to my dad.

And we know through a series of events at about 20 years or so, he interprets some dreams for a baker and a cupbearer. And one of them remembers him before Pharaoh. And as Pharaoh's trying to interpret his.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:58:57.477 - 00:59:00.893
Own dreams on the other, one couldn't remember because the prophecy came true that.

Josh Thompson
00:59:00.909 - 01:00:13.033
He was beheaded, he got killed. Yes. And the other is standing before Pharaoh. And Pharaoh says, nobody can interpret my dreams.

What's the problem with all you people, all you magicians? Nobody can interpret my dreams. And is it the cupbearer?

I believe the cupbearer sitting there says, there was a guy in prison named Joseph who interpreted my dreams when I was in there. And he actually remembered him. But at first he did not. But finally he remembered him.

And by the grace of God, Joseph comes and interprets Pharaoh's dream. And he says, I can't believe the wisdom and the favor that God's given you. I will make you my right hand man. And he becomes king of Egypt.

And because he interpreted a dream about a famine that was about to come on the land of Egypt and Pharaoh didn't know what to do about it. But Joseph had the keys of wisdom given to him by God through the interpretation of the dream. So all of a sudden, Joseph has all the power.

He is literally the king of Egypt because of these dreams. Very interesting though.

I mean, when you contrast sitting in prison for 20 years wondering why you're there and all of a sudden magically you're the king of Egypt and you have a plan in place to save the land.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:00:13.129 - 01:00:45.381
Well, and I actually wrote down his response to Pharaoh, like despite all of that, 20 years in prison, being sold by his brothers, accused of a crime he didn't commit. And his response to Pharaoh, this is in Genesis 41:16, he said, it is not in me. God will answer concerning the welfare of Pharaoh.

Like he directed it back to God. He didn't take, he didn't go, yes, I can interpret it. He's like, no, this is. God's going to give me the answers.

Josh Thompson
01:00:45.573 - 01:04:06.391
Yeah, he trusted the Lord all the way through his trial.

And I can imagine, I can't even imagine being sold into slavery and then sitting in prison, your brothers hate you, your dad thinks you're dead and you're sitting. I mean, it's all the bad news. Compiled, compiled, compiled.

And then the magic moment when Pharaoh says, you're king of Egypt, you're my right hand guy. I mean, Talk about mind blown. You know, you're sitting there like, how in the world did I get here? The story continues on.

There is famine in the land, and so all of the people have to come to Egypt to get food, to buy food and grain and all the rest. And Joseph has stored up all the grain in all of Egypt. So he holds the keys to all the grain, all the food.

And lo and behold, one day, guess who comes walking up to the palace? It's his brothers that were sent by dad to go and get food for the family. And Joseph looks down the steps and he sees his brothers.

And the text says that as soon as he saw them, he ran into his room and he wept and he came back out. He has a conversation with them and he hides his identity and he plays some tricks on them. He fills their bags with grain.

I believe he hides something in one of their bags that whisper from Pharaoh or from his palace. And then he sends his guards to go find them.

After they had gone, tried to make their trip back home, they find them, they open the bag and they say, see, you stole from Joseph or you stole from the king. And so they had to go back. And he says, since you stole from me, I'm going to keep one of your brothers. And he holds him there. And there's a.

There's a lot of details in the story I'm forgetting, but basically they go back to their dad and the dad is bummed because they've lost Benjamin, the young boy, I believe, or he will be taken if they do not come back truthful. And so, long story short, they end up making their way back. And on this trip back, Joseph reveals his identity to his brothers.

And it's a powerful moment.

It's a beautiful moment because Joseph had the opportunity to strike down his brothers who threw him in the pit, beat him up, ripped the jacket off his back, put blood on it, took it to their dad and said, the boy's dead, sold him into slavery and basically abandoned him. He could have turned around and crushed them, but he doesn't. Again, in tears, he's overwhelmed. He doesn't know what to do.

And he eventually tells his brothers, it's me, it's your brother Joseph whom you sold into slavery. And of course, the brothers jaws hit the ground, they cannot believe it's their brother.

Somewhere in the text it says that he falls on them and weeps.

He says the words we had said earlier, what you meant for evil, God ultimately meant for good and has brought me to this place to basically save the Land and save the people. It's a beautiful story of redemption and it's a beautiful lesson for life.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:04:06.583 - 01:04:16.185
There's like a couple of things that I was just trying to look it up here, I'm not finding. But you said that he was in prison for 20 years.

Josh Thompson
01:04:16.258 - 01:04:20.549
Yeah, that's what they speculate. It was around 20 years in prison.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:04:20.622 - 01:04:52.913
In chapter 41, we find out that he was 30 years old when he stood before Pharaoh. Which means that. And it was during the famine, which was after seven years of good harvests. So he's around 37, 38, maybe around 40 at this point.

But if he'd been in prison for 20 years and he had served probably a good chunk of time in, in Potiphar's house, he was sold into slavery around 8 or 9 years old as a kid.

Josh Thompson
01:04:52.969 - 01:04:53.529
Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:04:53.657 - 01:05:06.009
That takes what his brothers did to a whole other level. It's not like you've got some, you know, 18, 20 year old that's saying you're all going to worship me. No, you've got a nine year old.

Nine year olds say weird things.

Josh Thompson
01:05:06.057 - 01:05:07.165
Right? Totally.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:05:08.545 - 01:07:02.125
Excuse the interruption to the conversation, but I wanted to take a moment to address what I just said here because I got it wrong. After recording the episode, I looked into this more.

The 20 year estimate that Josh mentioned isn't how long Joseph was in prison, but the total time between when he was sold into slavery by his brothers and then again reunited with his family. Genesis 37:2 actually tells us his specific age when he had his dreams.

Joseph, when 17 years of age, was pasturing the flock with his brothers while he was still a youth. Genesis 41 tells us that he was 30 years old when entering the service of Pharaoh before the seven years of abundance.

Then in Genesis 45, we see that the famine had been lasting for two years when his brothers came to buy grain. That makes Joseph around 39 years old, or 22 years since he had been sold into slavery. How long was Joseph in prison? We don't know for sure.

There are 13 years between being sold into slavery and interpreting Pharaoh's dreams. And we know that the last two of those were in prison.

It's safe to say that it was likely somewhere between five and 10 years, with the rest being in Potiphar's house. But we can't definitively know based on Scripture. Why am I addressing this when it's not really a major doctrinal issue?

Because I don't want to mislead anyone even a little bit. And it's important to point out when we get things wrong, even when they're as small as this.

And while my point of Joseph being super young and 8 year olds saying weird things doesn't quite apply, Joseph was still a youth and his older brother still wanted to kill him simply for being his father's favorite and sharing what he had in his dreams. Now let's get back to the conversation.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:07:03.505 - 01:07:10.689
And they reacted so negatively. They're like, let's kill him. No, let's at least sell them off. Let's get rid of him.

Josh Thompson
01:07:10.777 - 01:07:25.327
It's really sad. And it does add another layer to the story.

You know, when you think about the oldest brother, you know, not stepping in and stopping the whole thing and taking care of his youngest brother, his old jealousy, you know, I mean, he, he.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:07:25.391 - 01:07:34.407
Stopped him from being killed. He stopped and said, well, let's not kill him, let's just get rid of him. But he didn't say, what we're doing is wrong.

Josh Thompson
01:07:34.471 - 01:07:34.887
Right?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:07:34.991 - 01:07:41.255
No one out of 11 brothers, no one said this is wrong.

Josh Thompson
01:07:41.335 - 01:08:59.709
Right? Yeah.

It's wild that none of the brothers stepped up to take care of their little brother, their little brother, their little guy, and that they were all jealous enough or envious enough to let him be sold.

But the bigger picture is that could it be that God was allowing all of this to happen just so that it was part of the plan, story and path so that he would make it to Egypt? And the answer is yes. What you meant for evil, God actually meant for good. He was actually working this out.

And that is a very difficult thing to say in life, period. You can't say it when you're being sold into slavery. What you mean for evil right now, God means for good. Okay, let's go into slavery.

You know, like, nobody's saying that. Nobody's saying that when a family member dies, nobody's saying that when you lose something that you poured your life into.

Nobody's saying that when something doesn't go the way that you're hoping in those moments, you're not saying you meant this for evil, but God meant it for good. You're saying this is evil and this is terrible. And I can't believe this is happening to me and how am I going to get through it?

But on the other side, when Joseph is standing there as king, he's able to say, God meant this for good. And now look at brothers, you're here with me.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:08:59.797 - 01:09:03.029
And he probably wouldn't have been able to say it until he was in that moment.

Josh Thompson
01:09:03.117 - 01:09:03.837
That's right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:09:03.981 - 01:09:59.009
And I know I Brought this up, like, as we were talking before we sat down.

But one of the things that jumped out to me as I was reading through the story last night was how Joseph had resigned himself into never seeing his family again when he has his children. And Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh for he said, God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's household.

He put them out of his mind, right? He basically was like, well, I can't change that, so I'm gonna just move on from this point forward.

And he just kept trucking on and then didn't real. I think probably didn't even really deal with some of the stuff.

And then that's why when he saw his brothers, and specifically his closest brother Benjamin, that they shared a mother, that he had to leave the room.

Josh Thompson
01:09:59.057 - 01:09:59.553
He wept.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:09:59.649 - 01:10:17.871
He wept. And I think he realized it probably was that moment that he was like, I can't. He probably had.

Well, it said he had forgotten them, so he hadn't been thinking about revenge. But who knows what he would have thought of, like, if he had ever run into them again. I don't think he ever thought he would.

Josh Thompson
01:10:17.943 - 01:12:43.975
No, I don't think so. I don't think he ever thought he was going to see them again. And so that's why he was so surprised and shocked, and that's why he wept. And.

But you can feel the emotion in the story, not just through the crying, but through really the storyline that there was. The brothers were so mean, and on their end, there was no reconciliation.

And they were in fear when they saw Joseph because they thought he was going to kill him. Like, oh, my gosh, it's our brother. Once he revealed his identity, they thought they were dead. But Joseph, God had already worked in his heart.

And he's like, no, I'm going to forgive you. I'm going to let all of this go. I'm going to bless you. And he gets to save dad. He gets to save the family. He gets to bring them to Egypt.

He gets to do all of that for his family, even though they did all that against him. It's so Jesus. It's so the gospel. It's so good. It is the story of redemption. It's the story of grace. You know, it is very difficult.

It is very difficult to honor and bless and show favor to somebody who's done such wrong to you. The fact of the matter is we have done such wrong to God.

We have done such wrong to the Lord Jesus, and he has turned around and blessed us with forgiveness. With the gift of heaven, with blessings and promises. He is Joseph. He is the greater than Joseph.

He is the one who gave Joseph that heart to want to forgive his brothers and to make things right and to do it in the manner in which he did. It's a beautiful story of pain and suffering in God's ultimate plan of redemption.

Regardless if we're working through some pain and suffering even now, God is going to work it for his glory. He has a plan for good. He hasn't. It's not just wasted pain.

I remember Pastor Greg told me that a long time ago, you know, he lost his son in a car accident. I remember him telling me after my brother had died, he said, don't waste your pain. He said, don't ever waste your pain.

And I thought that was so good because sometimes we just want to stuff it down and push it out.

But if we can use the pain for God's glory, if we can use it to minister to others, if we can use it even to see God's redemptive plan long term, that he's working to restore and make all things right, it reminds us of heaven, it reminds us of his grace, it reminds us of his mercy. So it's all good stuff. You know, it's all. But it's hidden. It's hidden in the pain.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:12:44.095 - 01:13:09.185
I kind of wonder too, you know, again, like, reading between the lines of the scripture, it's not written there, so we can't necessarily preach it, but we can speculate with how he reacted specifically to Benjamin.

Like, there's not even just him weeping at the side of him, but there was something about, he threw them a meal, but I think it was before he revealed who he was.

Josh Thompson
01:13:09.265 - 01:13:09.873
That's right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:13:09.969 - 01:13:12.389
And he gives X extra portions to Benjamin.

Josh Thompson
01:13:12.437 - 01:13:13.045
That's right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:13:13.165 - 01:13:39.355
And I'm kind of wondering, I can imagine if, since they shared a mother, if the rest of the brothers had always, like, ribbed Benjamin's like, be careful or we'll do to you like we did to Joseph. And if even, like, while Joseph was still there, if it was like, oh, we're the. The dreamer's brother.

And he was always probably treated like the second least favorite. And so that's kind of one of the reasons why he may have thrown a little extra.

Josh Thompson
01:13:39.655 - 01:14:21.457
He was testing them, you know, he said, he's basically saying, give the youngest brother the largest portion because he's the favorite now of Father. And let's see how the brothers react. If they are, if their heart is still hardened, will they treat him the way that they treated me.

And so he was testing them. He was trying to see how their hearts were. And it's the same thing with the, you know, with the gold in the rice sack or whatever, the grain sack.

He hid those things in there. He was doing these little testing games to try to see where their heart was at.

Were they going to just leave their brother again, or were they going to make things and come up with some story?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:14:21.521 - 01:14:29.727
Or were they. But we see that they went back to their father and said, no, this is. He's being held. We need to go do something about. We need to go back.

Josh Thompson
01:14:29.881 - 01:14:52.043
And their father, I mean, he just broke, you know, he must have just broke. Like, I've lost Joseph and now Benjamin. What is wrong with you guys? What have you done? And it's such a great story because it's all pushing towards.

It just keeps pushing more and more and more pressure towards this amazing moment of redemption, this amazing moment of grace.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:14:52.179 - 01:14:54.219
Is there anything else on this topic?

Josh Thompson
01:14:54.267 - 01:15:18.821
You're. No. I mean, it's a great story.

I love the story overall and I love that God can take our broken pieces of life and that he can make something beautiful out of them. You know, that's my favorite part of the story.

It's my favorite part of this whole story, I guess, of the Bible is that that's kind of the plan of God. And they're hidden in each of these stories. And one of them is Joseph.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
01:15:19.013 - 01:16:29.005
Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Eternal Impact. I feel incredibly privileged that Josh would share his story with us.

From his mother's death at an early age and losing the family home to he and his wife struggled to conceive a child and his brother taking his own life. These stories are difficult to hear, but you may relate to one or more of them. You may be going through that season now.

You may see Joseph's life in your own. As we talked about and showed today, God can use the hard times to accomplish something greater. He intends it for good. Don't waste your pain.

In our next episode, we will be talking with another leader at Legacy City Church, Aaron Stephens, and diving into the parable of the sower. Please don't miss it and make sure to subscribe and share. Share this show with your friends.

For more information or to join our email newsletter, visit our website at EternalImpact Show. Until next episode, I am Aaron Matthew Kaiser and this is Eternal Impact.

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