The Power of Relationships in Ministry: Lessons from Logan Lee

Logan Lee
00:00:00.200 - 00:00:18.045
I think this is the hard part for a lot of Christians. A lot of times we do this in hopes that if I spend enough time with this person, they'll get saved.

If I spend enough time with this person, they'll come to church. But what if they don't? Or what if they don't for a long time? Are you prepared to be in relationship for a life, regardless of the outcome?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:00:24.985 - 00:01:18.553
Welcome to Eternal Impact.

I'm your host, Aaron Matthew Kaiser, and the purpose of this podcast is to bring biblical stories to life so that we can see how they change lives today.

In this week's episode, we talk to Logan Lee and hear his story of growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, then being called to plant a church here in the middle of Los Angeles, only to arrive one week before the city locked down under Covid restrictions.

However, through his efforts to create a culture of building relationships with others, he was able to successfully plant Ignite LA Church during a season where other churches closed their doors. And this all relates to Jesus. Parable of the dishonest manager. So get ready because we're about to jump right into it. Logan, I want to thank you for coming on to this episode of Eternal Impact.

Logan Lee
00:01:18.649 - 00:01:20.473
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here tonight.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:01:20.569 - 00:01:34.395
I always generally like to start with the beginning. Well, the before we go to the beginning kind of how we're connected. We're connected through a mutual friend, Ivan. And how do you know Ivan?

Logan Lee
00:01:34.475 - 00:01:51.715
So Ivan and I are from the same hometown, Omaha, Nebraska. Kind of grew up together, part of the same youth ministry back in omaha.

Church of 60 different nationalities, pretty large church, has had a lot of impact in the region there. And it's kind of where I grew up and where I gave my life to Jesus and where I got discipled and kind of where everything started for me.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:01:51.795 - 00:01:53.939
What was growing up in Omaha like?

Logan Lee
00:01:53.987 - 00:03:26.049
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I think Omaha is one of those cities that's often misperceived. You know, it's.

It's definitely not a major west or east coast city, but it's also not like middle of nowhere. You know, it's a, you know, regular medium sized city of about half a million people.

And I think for me growing up in the 90s and even early 2000s, it's obviously changed a lot. It's kind of middle of the road. I wouldn't say it's a red or a blue city. It's more purple.

Politically, I'm biracial, so I grew up in this environment where Dad's family's African American. Mom's family is white Irish. Omaha has a large Catholic population and so I was one of the few Pentecostal kids in my sphere there.

So growing up, everyone had to go to CCD or confirmation. Small Jewish population, but primarily largely Catholic.

And that was kind of like your social life was your local parish and whatever your family was doing on the weekends and on the weeknights outside of school and work. Pretty standard. I mean, I used to ride my bike, I would go play outside. I mean, you know, a lot of the typical stereotypical Midwestern things.

But I think for me it was a really unique experience because not being on the east or the west coast, you do get this kind of American experience to where, you know, now living on the West Coast, I appreciate those roots and I'm also able to kind of look to like, you know, the Pacific Rim and, you know, the global identity of la.

And really, I think growing up in Omaha, in a multicultural church in a city like that really kind of gave me roots to be able to come out to a place like LA and plant a church and do ministry here.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:03:26.137 - 00:03:31.833
I don't know if there's a much more multicultural city other than maybe New York.

Logan Lee
00:03:31.929 - 00:03:37.049
Yeah, I mean, you know, actually by most metrics LA is the densest metro in America.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:03:37.177 - 00:03:38.025
Even more than New York.

Logan Lee
00:03:38.065 - 00:03:42.161
Even more than New York. I mean, we, we go more out this way than up that way. Of course.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:03:42.233 - 00:03:43.449
Okay, that makes sense.

Logan Lee
00:03:43.537 - 00:04:10.325
But LA county, largest populated county in America.

And if you want to take it precisely percentage by percentage, you know, in terms of ethnic groups and foreign born population, we actually outrank New York in terms of the sheer diversity, particularly from parts of Asia and Latin America.

I mean, it's been said before that LA is the, you know, western capital of the United States, the northern capital of Latin America and the eastern capital of the Pacific Rims. So we're kind of a little bit of everything all at once.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:04:10.365 - 00:04:13.141
You know, I'd never heard that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Logan Lee
00:04:13.253 - 00:04:15.581
So if you want to reach the world, you come to la. That's why I'm here.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:04:15.653 - 00:04:35.360
And we talk about that. I think I talked about it in at least two or three episodes briefly.

But then in the episode with Karen Covell, we talk a lot about it because that's her mission is getting the churches to pray for those working in entertainment. Because this is the cultural capital of the world in addition to all of those other things.

Logan Lee
00:04:35.432 - 00:04:35.880
Absolutely.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:04:35.952 - 00:04:40.296
And we do influence the culture of the world here through our media yeah.

Logan Lee
00:04:40.320 - 00:04:52.100
We are the storytelling capital of the world, as I like to say. Doesn't matter if productions like to go to Atlanta or Vancouver.

The whole idea epicenter and the creativity, everything starts here and then moves out from here.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:04:52.192 - 00:05:21.043
I've been here in LA for 14 years now, and I was already in the industry in San Diego, but I had had this perception of, oh, well, I can live in San Diego and then I can go to LA to have meetings. And then something finally clicked where I realized, oh, I need to be in LA to meet the people to have the meetings.

Because, yeah, production happens anywhere but the meetings. The business happens here.

Logan Lee
00:05:21.139 - 00:05:49.371
And I will say that since you brought that up, the interesting thing about LA is each city has its thing. So New York, you know, in my experience, has all been about what you do and how much you make.

People will say that Miami is more of, how cool are you? What's your vibe? Right. Chicago is the Midwest. And so it's, where are you from? Where'd you go to school? I mean, even from Omaha.

That's kind of how people tend to identify as where they grew up and where they went to school. It's all about your roots. And then you look at a place like LA and it's like, who do you know?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:05:49.443 - 00:06:06.147
I had heard something similar, but not quite as profound as what you just shared, but the difference between LA and New York and status symbols. In la, it's about what car you drive, and in New York you don't drive. So it's all about who you're wearing.

Logan Lee
00:06:06.251 - 00:06:07.555
Yeah, cultural values.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:06:07.635 - 00:06:17.459
That's one of the other things that Karen talked about is that we in Hollywood are like a hidden people group and we have our own culture.

Logan Lee
00:06:17.547 - 00:06:46.785
I mean, it's more of a clan, right?

Anthropologists would say clan is, you know, they're not people that are genetically related, but they share a common interest, a common goal, and in some way they've forged an alliance or pledged loyalty. You know, I love studying that kind of stuff, like how to. How do people form together, right? And what are tribes made out of?

Tribes are made up of clans. You know, even, like biblically, like, you had the nation of Israel, 12 tribes, right? And then you had clans and you had families.

So God would tell them, hey, you know, got the clans, you got the families, you got the tribe and you got the nation, right?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:06:46.865 - 00:06:53.009
Let's dial back again to growing up and coming to Christ. What happened there? What was that like?

Logan Lee
00:06:53.097 - 00:08:07.411
I gave my life to Jesus at age 7. And I very clearly remember it because there Was a missionary from Africa. I can't. I want to say it's Kenya, but I can't remember.

We had a missionary visiting our church that Sunday and he gave an altar call after he had preached a sermon.

And I remember being a 7 year old and, you know, my mom was in the service and I walked up the aisle and knelt down at the front and repeated and I prayed the prayer. And I had someone put their hand and praying over me. And I remember that being the very clear moment that I accepted Jesus.

And from then on, for me, it was just a process of kind of being in this spiritual community. So I grew up in the church.

I know that means something different to everybody, but for me it just meant like, you know, we were one of those families. And I say we myself, my mom was a single mom and I have a younger sister.

And so the three of us, we were pretty much at church anytime the doors were open again. That kind of goes back to the culture in the Midwest is on the West Coast. It's more about like, you know, I'm doing my thing.

That's something I had to get used to versus, you know, in Nebraska, for example, and even in Omaha. It's very much the sense of, you know, your identity is more found within your community.

So if you stand out too much, it's kind of nobody wants to be the big fish in the small pond.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:08:07.563 - 00:08:10.691
Even in San Diego, I think I ran into that a few times.

Logan Lee
00:08:10.803 - 00:08:48.602
You can express individuality and be yourself, but it's like to a point. But for me, I didn't really. That was a negative thing for me. It's like I saw the church as my family coming from a broken home.

For me, it was like, this is where I want to be, you know. And so for me, you know, there are a lot of challenges growing up too.

But I think the thing that really kind of helped me was really learning about who Jesus was personally. And I think that that's something that probably kind of kept me from, you know, now deconstruction is a big popular topic, you know, in the church.

This idea of kind of breaking down or pulling away and kind of yanking out things that maybe I learned that.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:08:48.658 - 00:08:52.002
Were more religion than relationship, more legalism.

Logan Lee
00:08:52.098 - 00:09:50.091
Things that maybe created trauma in people's lives. And I don't. I think that by God's grace, I didn't really experience a lot of that.

And I think it was probably because, you know, I saw pastors and leaders come and go. I remember when I was 15, my youth pastor made A big impact in my life and you know, just a phenomenal man of God. I'm still in touch with him.

He was one of the first people to say, you know, hey, I want to get behind you, when he knew we were going to plant a church. And he's in Arizona and Tucson now, leading a large church there.

But I remember when he left to go to Arizona and I was almost 16, I remember I was like, oh man, I can't believe. I wish he was going to stay. But I remember at that moment it was like, but I know this is right. I know that God's always doing something new.

There's always new seasons that are happening in our lives and we. So Even at age 15, 16, I got this sense of nothing lasts forever.

There's people that are going to come and go, they're going to make deposits in your life and they love you. But then relationships can change.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:09:50.243 - 00:09:53.819
So when did you first start getting involved in ministry?

Logan Lee
00:09:53.947 - 00:10:22.187
I was actually in college and so what I did was I left Omaha and I went to Southeastern University in Lakeland, Florida, which is a Christian college, Pentecostal college there, majored in journalism and minored in theology. So at the time I didn't think I was going to be in full time ministry. It's interesting. I kind of had a long winding road.

So I was co editor of my high school newspaper. I wanted to be a foreign correspondent, a journalist.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:10:22.251 - 00:10:23.675
That was sounds exciting.

Logan Lee
00:10:23.795 - 00:12:20.907
It was very exciting. In fact, I remember, I want to say it was 2006 when podcasting became a thing.

Somewhere like that, mid-2000s, my high school, we actually started doing a podcast, like the first thing, like no one was doing that. We started doing it. I always loved media, I always loved news.

I always was like, you know, watching like the war in the Balkans and this is what's going on over here and this. And I just was like enamored by the culture. And I always had this sense that I was going to do something cross culturally.

And so growing up I always felt like, oh, maybe I'm going to move outside of America, you know. So when I was in college majoring in journalism, I got the chance in 2011, during the Arab Spring, right after school to go to the Middle East.

And at the time I had a friend who was a missionary in Sudan and he was neighbors with a BBC journalist. And I made contact with this guy over email.

Long story short, the plan was to get a visa to go to Sudan, kind of learn from him as he's covering this at the time. Separation between north and what became South Sudan. And my visa got submitted along with a group of other known Christian missionaries.

And so it got denied. But at the same time, I was already in that part of the world.

I got to spend some time in Israel, and I was in Israel and in the Palestinian area for a while.

And through that time, I really fell in love with the culture of the Middle east and got a vision to reach people that are unreached with the gospel, particularly Arab Muslims and Israeli Jews, and just really fell in love with that region. And so that was kind of what led me to that.

And so coming back then to the States, back to Omaha, then in about 2012, I knew that my call to ministry was going to involve cross cultural work.

And at the time I thought it was going to be missions like, okay, I'm going to move and go live and evangelize and learn this language and culture in this part of the world. And, you know, and so I was pursuing that. And ultimately God had turned my plans around, ended up staying in Ohio.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:12:20.931 - 00:12:22.395
Isn't it annoying when he does that?

Logan Lee
00:12:22.435 - 00:12:23.195
Very annoying.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:12:23.275 - 00:12:24.867
But the end result is always.

Logan Lee
00:12:24.971 - 00:12:25.539
Exactly.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:12:25.627 - 00:12:26.147
Happier.

Logan Lee
00:12:26.251 - 00:12:46.691
Exactly, yeah.

You know, my early 20s, I was like, oh, but the funny thing about that is that I actually met my wife who's from Bahrain, which is next to Saudi Arabia and Dubai, and she had gone to college in Nebraska. And we actually met through the young adult ministry at our, at my home church. And so God kind of took that love for that part of the world.

And I met my wife, who's from there, and we met in Omaha.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:12:46.803 - 00:12:47.411
Interesting.

Logan Lee
00:12:47.483 - 00:13:06.871
It's very interesting. And we both shared a call to ministry.

But so for me, really, it started officially probably, you know, a little over a decade ago when I was like, okay, this is kind of the call here.

And so I started doing young adult ministry, started serving in the church, started, like leading a small group, and then my wife and I became the young adult pastors. Up until the point that we came.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:13:06.903 - 00:13:21.423
Here to la, what specifically was it about LA that you knew that you wanted to serve here as opposed to in either Omaha or New York or some, or even Israel, somewhere like that.

Logan Lee
00:13:21.519 - 00:13:51.667
For me, it was very clear.

Like when we were leading a young adult ministry and we were pastoring, I knew there was a moment where I was praying and fasting and God spoke very clearly to me. He's like, I want to finish what I started in your life. You know, I want to take you back to, you know, fulfill the dreams that I put in your heart.

I want To I want you to go back home, I want you to kind of go along this path.

And so I approached our lead pastor and I had a lot of things, you know, because whenever God speaks to you, it's not just like one thing, like one prophetic vision. It's usually many things that go on in your life. Right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:13:51.731 - 00:13:55.519
That kind of reinforces that, okay, maybe that was from God.

Logan Lee
00:13:55.627 - 00:14:54.147
Exactly.

So our pastor had just started casting vision for how, you know, we're this 80 year old church, we're 60 nationalities, we've done so much in this region, but God didn't put us here just so we could all just be here celebrating on a Sunday. He put us here so we could reach the world with all the potential we have here.

And he's like, some of you going to be doing missions, some of you are going to be doing things in the city and some are you going to be planting churches. And when he said that, it just caught my, my mind.

And at the time I didn't really have language for, you know, what I now call the church planting, you know, complex, you know what I mean? There's just all this lingo that goes along with any part of ministry or part of life. Right. I didn't have language for that at the time.

You know, I had been bi, vocational, I'd done different things so I wasn't quite sure what that looked like. And so I approached our pastor and he's like, what do you guys feel called to do? Do you feel like you're called to go overseas or called stay here?

And I said, honestly, church planting has been on my heart. And he's like, do you have a place in mind? I said, yeah, Los Angeles. And he's like, why la? And I'm like, it's the global city.

And I just blurted out, I was like, if Paul was here today, he'd be in la.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:14:54.271 - 00:14:56.779
Yeah, it's the Rome of today.

Logan Lee
00:14:56.867 - 00:15:23.733
It is. And I've even said later, I said in a sermon on our launch Sunday, I said, if Leonard, if da Vinci was here today, I believe he'd be here.

There are more people working, this is a fact.

There are more people today in greater LA working in, whether it's Silicon beach, film, entertainment, creative in general, more people working in the creative arts field here than in any other city in the world in any other time in history. More than Rome, more than Venice, more than Milan, all that put together.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:23.829 - 00:15:42.661
And the interesting thing too is how a lot of those barriers are crossing over too. Because how much has technology enabled Artists even right now, there's that AI. Yeah, I am resisting that. I just. I don't know why I'm.

Logan Lee
00:15:42.693 - 00:15:44.053
You have to pay for it, though, right?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:44.189 - 00:15:53.087
Like, five bucks. I'm also not one that likes to follow trends. I would much prefer being the trailblazer.

Logan Lee
00:15:53.231 - 00:15:54.903
Are you an enneagram4, by chance?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:54.999 - 00:15:57.655
I have not done the Enneagram. I've done the Myers Briggs.

Logan Lee
00:15:57.735 - 00:15:58.183
I know.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:15:58.239 - 00:15:59.535
I'm an enfp.

Logan Lee
00:15:59.655 - 00:16:00.159
Okay.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:16:00.247 - 00:16:05.687
I know, like, what my spiritual gift is, and. But I haven't done the Enneagram yet.

Logan Lee
00:16:05.751 - 00:16:18.597
So I'm an eight, which is the challenger. But the four is the individualist.

And I always say there's a lot of fours in LA because they don't want to follow trends or anything that's perceived to be a trend, even if their interest is in that. They're like, I don't want to do that because other people are doing it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:16:18.621 - 00:16:25.357
You know, that's almost the mentality of America in general. The, you know, Sinatra singing I Did It My Way.

Logan Lee
00:16:25.421 - 00:16:25.693
Right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:16:25.749 - 00:16:30.685
We're the rugged individualists who are the pull ourselves up from our bootstraps.

Logan Lee
00:16:30.725 - 00:16:32.141
And that's so pioneer.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:16:32.173 - 00:16:43.189
Yep, the pioneers, you know, going across country in a covered wagon. Maybe they'll make it, maybe they won't. And that is so really antithetical to the gospel.

Logan Lee
00:16:43.277 - 00:17:25.576
Exactly. Absolutely. I mean, that's a whole podcast right there. East First West.

I mean, I think that it's so interesting because today in North America, you know, you go around the world and you see, like, there's revival happening in parts of Europe. You see movements in Africa, in Latin America and Asia.

You see Muslims coming to Christ, stories of them seeing Jesus in dreams, and even people that I know personally more than ever before, people that have done ministry with, with within, like, the Muslim community for decades, and this is the first time they're seeing, like, mass revival house churches in Iran and things in China and. But for some reason, it's just sometimes I feel like we just can't seem to quite get our act together in North America.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:17:25.680 - 00:17:31.968
But even then, I mean, before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about just churches getting hit by Covid.

Logan Lee
00:17:32.056 - 00:17:32.464
Yeah.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:17:32.544 - 00:17:40.259
But at the same time, there was a lot of people getting saved during COVID because people were getting afraid.

Logan Lee
00:17:40.347 - 00:18:01.851
I think it's interesting because you talk about COVID and, you know, people coming to faith. That's absolutely true. I think that, you know, a lot of people had, you know, left LA or left the West Coast.

But then people have also come here at the same Time. I mean, this is still the center of gravity for everything we just talked about.

And so, you know, you see certain people coming out and certain people coming in, right? And so I don't really buy into the whole doom and gloom.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:18:01.923 - 00:18:32.895
I try not to either. I don't allow myself to be anxious about what's going on. It's important to note and go, hmm, I see what's happening. And it's concerning.

Maybe at what point do we need to fight against some of these things and push back? Let's talk a little bit about your church that you've planted Ignite la, and this is a relatively new church.

What was the journey to get the doors open like?

Logan Lee
00:18:32.975 - 00:21:04.025
It was wild, you know. So we left Omaha, spent all of 2019 planning, preparing, kind of getting time and finances and things in order.

Knew we were going to come out here and thought it was going to happen maybe sooner. I thought it was going to maybe happen at the end of 2019, the fall, and then that got pushed a little bit further.

And so March 6th of 2020, we left Omaha and we packed up our car and we drove out here and got here on March 9th. Had I known what was going to happen a week later, I probably would have taken more time.

We landed here March 9 and, you know, landed in Airbnb because we were looking for a place to live permanently. And then about a week later, we became the first city in America to shut down non essential businesses. Right, as they called them.

And so that was, for me, really hard. I'm a natural extrovert. I love to be out and about, not really a homebody. And so I was excited.

Like, my vision was to come to la and we didn't come with a team. It was my wife and I. We had some connections through our church planting network and a few relationships, but nothing official.

So we knew we were going to have to, you know, get to know the city, get to know people, right? Go out, right? And so I had this whole itinerary plan for the year, right? And I was going to go to, you know, my first Dodgers game, my LAFC game.

I'm going to go try out all the food and all the coffee and do the hike in Runyon Canyon, do all the LA stuff and connect with Christians and connect with the, you know, people that don't know Jesus and just see what God wants to do. That was the plan. And of course it didn't happen. And so it was really hard for me. For my wife and I, it was disappointing.

And so what we Immediately did though, was we pivoted, right, still the word I use, right, we pivoted and we just started connecting with people online. And so we, you know, we joined a couple Facebook groups for parts of LA that we knew we wanted to connect with. That became the virtual town hall.

People are talking, right? There's 5,000 people in this Facebook group.

It's like a third of this part of LA is in the group and people are just posting all the time, talking about whatever. And we just started connecting. We met people. Pretty soon we met people on Instagram. Pretty soon we just started DMing with people.

And pretty soon we were zooming with people and pretty soon we were hosting a Bible study on zoom, right? And then, you know, it just grew. I mean, we actually built our core team of people before we launched. The original like thing we did was all online.

And then when we finally met about seven or eight months later in person, it already felt like we were a church.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:21:04.485 - 00:21:04.957
That's great.

Logan Lee
00:21:04.981 - 00:21:06.549
We'd only seen each other online.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:21:06.677 - 00:21:24.369
You did a lot of kind of that pre game work, you could say pre launch, really kind of not starting up from scratch and getting it so that when you officially open the door, there were was already a committed community behind you.

Logan Lee
00:21:24.457 - 00:22:37.199
I'm a natural networker. I love to connect with people. You know, I'll never say no to a coffee or a lunch.

So it kind of leads into what I, what I want to talk about in a little bit. But ultimately I've. I've learned that if you can create awareness again, LA is about who you know and not just who you know, but who knows you.

And so you're coming into a space where you don't have relational connection. I wasn't on staff at a church here, you know, I don't have a celebrity following.

So the odds that someone is going to just show up at my gathering, you know, without knowing me previously, it's probably not going to happen. And so you have to understand that. And so for me, coming in with this mindset of, all right, you know, there's a certain amount of hustle here.

Obviously, you know, I know the Holy Spirit's working, but my priority is to build relationship with as many people as I can. And particularly like, hey, if you feel like you're not connected, maybe you are looking for a new home, a new church community.

Maybe you don't have one. Maybe you're new to the faith and you have not never really gone to church.

Maybe you haven't gone since before COVID Hey would invite you to come be a part of what we're doing, come check it out, come see if maybe God's speaking to you about being a part of this team and a part of what we feel called to do in Los Angeles. And so that's kind of what we did and that's kind of how we kind of got to where we are now, what we're doing.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:22:37.367 - 00:22:44.807
What is your vision for the church and how does that tie into why you came to la?

Logan Lee
00:22:44.951 - 00:24:09.975
So our vision is to be a place where anyone can be transformed by the person of Jesus. And so our primary focus is on people that are unchurched, people that are, you know, entrepreneurial professionals.

I would say our target is probably somewhere like a, between age 28 to 35, you know, whether it's probably, you know, whether it's a single or a couple, you know, kids, no kids, doesn't really matter. But people that are really kind of driven, you know what I mean?

Like those are the people that I think that they're kind of my people, people that we, I'd say my wife and I connect with the people that, you know, they're, they're out there, they're hustling. Maybe they work at a coffee shop, maybe they're a single parent, but they're doing clothing on the side. Right.

I've always kind of found that that's the thing I love about la, you know, that's, it's that creation. It's a, you know, the thing that attracts people from all around the world. So, you know, attracting people from other parts of the world.

So foreign born people, entrepreneurial, professional people, that's kind of who we've been kind of rubbing shoulders with and connecting with and kind of, you know, engaging to the faith. And so I think for us, our long term vision, we call it i3 impact, ignite influence. We want to impact LA with the gospel.

So specifically the people I was talking about, you know, I meet people all the time that, you know, hard to believe in North America, but people that have never heard of Jesus or you know, they've heard of Jesus, but like, you know, they don't know anything about the God of the scriptures that we would know about.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:24:10.055 - 00:24:14.999
They don't really know Jesus. They have impressions of who they think he is.

Logan Lee
00:24:15.087 - 00:24:54.525
Exactly. In contrast to maybe parts of the south and the Midwest where you have what we call more de.

Churched people, you have people that grew up in a traditional church and either because of some hurt or because of just life got busy or they just didn't care. They haven't been to church in 20 years. Versus out here. I meet people all the time who. It's not that they left and just left.

It's that they never were a part of a faith community regularly, their parents, never they. So at this point now, especially if you're like a young millennial, Gen Z, you're.

It's about two generations removed from when people regularly went to church, you know, in America. And that was part of the culture.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:24:54.605 - 00:25:12.247
The interesting thing is that's probably actually better for them because it's so easy for people who grew up in the church to learn the lingo, learn all the things to say, and never stop and actually have a relationship with Christ.

Logan Lee
00:25:12.391 - 00:25:12.999
Exactly.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:25:13.087 - 00:26:06.779
Just as a quick sidebar, there was actually someone that used to go to one of my churches and he came out to LA to be an actor, but also to save Hollywood. And he'd get together with our pastor all the time and would be like, all right, here's my new plan to save Hollywood.

Here's my new plan to save Hollywood. And then we started going through James, which faith without works is dead.

And it doesn't mean works save you, but James is basically saying, if I don't see any fruit, I'm concerned.

And he just started getting really antsy and started pacing out in the lobby because he realized that he had been in youth group as a leader and leader of Christian club at school, and he realized that he never stopped to actually accept Christ. And he ended up leaving la. And on the drive home, as his mom's driving, he just starts breaking down and he's like, I just got saved.

We left California.

Logan Lee
00:26:06.867 - 00:26:14.611
I mean, that's the thing too, I've realized, is people say, oh, I want to change this industry, or do. Jesus never said to change anything. You know, he never said to take the city.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:26:14.763 - 00:26:15.147
Right.

Logan Lee
00:26:15.211 - 00:27:38.569
You know what I mean? Like, we use all this language that's kind of a bit weird. You know, if you think about it, I love la.

I mean, you know, we got a lot of things we got to work on, but I love our city. I really do. And it's my home for the foreseeable future. Let the culture teach you how to reach it.

And so what that means is if you don't know the culture that you're involved in, you're not going to know the language people speak. Right?

So if your only goal is to save Hollywood, or if your only goal is, I'm going to get every barista at my favorite coffee shop down here in noho saved. It's like, okay, well, good luck. That might take you a few years, but that can't be your strategy to start a ministry or church.

So you want to find like minded people who already are of faith.

And there are people like that here who love Jesus who are, you know, go getters, but they love God and share with them your heart and your vision for how you feel. God's called you to reach people that don't know him in the city or in your industry and then begin to relationally develop people from then.

Because I've tried that other way of like, oh, we're just going to save people, right? Or I'm just going to go reach this coffee shop and it's great.

And people know who I am and they know that I love Jesus, they know that I'm a pastor, but that's not going to make them come on Sunday and all of a sudden be all in. You know what I mean?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:27:38.617 - 00:27:39.017
Yeah.

Logan Lee
00:27:39.121 - 00:27:42.289
So, yeah, it's definitely, it's a lifestyle.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:27:42.377 - 00:28:21.509
I've been a Christian for 30 years now and I'm starting, but because of this podcast and everything and just because it changes my life, I've been a lot more vocal about my faith online and I'm starting to run into people that didn't realize I was a Christian before. They're like, when have you gotten saved? I'm like, 30 years ago. And they're like, wait, what? But you didn't act like it back then. I'm like, oh, man.

And I've had to deal with the conviction of how was I not living the life? How did I mess it up so that people just didn't know I was a believer. I thought I was obvious and I wasn't.

Logan Lee
00:28:21.597 - 00:29:24.687
There's something that happens when you get a vision for something, whether it's to plant a church or to start like a media ministry or a podcast, there's something evangelistic that goes off inside of you.

So although you've followed Jesus for three decades, you know, although I've been saved Since I was 7 years old, there's something again, it goes back to like what I said, like, God's always doing something new. You know, the fruit that maybe people are seeing in Aaron now that they maybe didn't see then. It wasn't that there was no fruit.

It's just that this fervency of evangelism and engagement is new and it's fresh.

And, you know, to be honest, I think for me, you know, having been saved as a child and growing up in church and because I didn't maybe have an experience where I fell into sin and came back and all that. There was a season where I maybe got a little cold and I was like, I kind of wasn't sure. Like, I was looking for a mission, for a clear mission.

I mean, I believe in the Great Commission, but I was looking for a clear mission for Logan.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:24.791 - 00:29:29.967
The tasks to do here and now and next, however, days, weeks, months.

Logan Lee
00:29:30.031 - 00:29:45.007
Absolutely. And I do believe that as a follower of Jesus, whoever you are, wherever you are, wherever you're listening, whoever you are, you need to find that.

And God has that for you wherever it is. And I think that until you find that the Christian life can feel boring and monotonous.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:45.151 - 00:29:45.879
It can.

Logan Lee
00:29:46.007 - 00:29:54.755
It's just not really your life. It's just something that's like an aesthetic. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I follow Jesus. And you know all this other stuff.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:29:58.495 - 00:30:11.391
You told me that your church is going through a series right now called Stories for the City. Yep. That relates directly to where we're about to go into scripture. Talk to me about this series real quick.

Logan Lee
00:30:11.503 - 00:30:30.581
Yeah, so when we launched, you know, I've always been kind of an expository minded, you know, communicator.

Like, I love the word of God, and so I would rather go through books of the Bible and pull out the themes that are there in scripture versus take a topic, which you know, I might do in the future, and then find scripture that then supports it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:30:30.653 - 00:30:38.229
And personally, I think the way you're doing it, where you go through scripture and then just say, this is what the scripture says is really the more solid way to teach anyway.

Logan Lee
00:30:38.317 - 00:31:17.435
Yeah. I mean, I know people that kind of do both. I think it depends on your style as a communicator.

I do think, though, that we live in an age where biblical literacy is so low, even among, again, Christians. Right. Who don't know their Bibles. If you don't know the meta narrative of scripture. Right. Talk about storytelling.

If you don't know the story of the gospel, the good news, if you don't know the story, the common thread. I've talked to people who. They're like, yeah, I'm a Christian, but I've read the Gospel of John and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm like, what do you mean, doesn't make any sense? I mean, I understand what the Word says, but I'm just lost. I'm like, okay, well, have you, have you prayed? Have you talked to the Holy Spirit?

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:31:17.515 - 00:31:21.891
That's Sounding like they might not actually be saved if they're not understanding something's.

Logan Lee
00:31:21.923 - 00:32:14.507
Missing here because it's not academic. It's, you know, the simplicity of the word of God. So I knew we wanted. I wanted to go through one of the gospels.

And Luke is my favorite gospel doctor Luke. Luke was a storyteller, a journalist, right? He went around Jerusalem interviewing people. He studied the text, right? He knew the background.

He was an associate of Paul. He followed Paul around. We have Acts because of Luke. Thank God. Right? The Gospel of Luke has the most parables that are unique to any other gospel.

And so I knew that going through Luke, you know, could take a while. You know, I didn't want to spend a year in there or even six months. I felt like as a new church in la, things move so fast.

I've noticed that there's kind of a shift. No, you know, they're not making like five seasons and however many episodes anymore. I mean, some shows they are.

But there's a new thing I've noticed in the past year.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:32:14.571 - 00:32:15.313
10 episode season.

Logan Lee
00:32:15.364 - 00:32:16.699
8 to 10 episode season.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:32:16.747 - 00:32:17.291
Limited run.

Logan Lee
00:32:17.323 - 00:32:46.805
Yeah, limited run. And that's. That's it. And they'll probably do another one. Who knows? But.

And I'm like, there's something appealing to that, to me, versus doing, like, Luke for a year. It's like, let's just pick these 10 parables, right? These however many parables. And so that's where I got the name stories for the city.

Because as a storytelling capital of the world, I believe that the greatest story that we can tell is the story of Jesus, right? The person of Jesus, right? The story of the Gospel and what it actually means in our lives.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:32:46.925 - 00:32:51.549
So what parable are we going to talk about today that's impacted your life?

Logan Lee
00:32:51.677 - 00:32:55.069
So we are going to talk about the parable of the dishonest manager out.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:32:55.077 - 00:32:58.069
Of Luke 16, starting in verse one.

Logan Lee
00:32:58.157 - 00:34:43.909
He also said to the disciples, there was a rich man who had a manager, and charges were brought to him that this man was wasting his possessions. And he called him and said to him, what is that that I hear about you turn into the account of your management, for you can no longer be manager.

And the manager said to himself, what shall I do? Since my master is taking the management away from me, I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg.

I have decided what I what to do, so that when I am removed from management, people may receive me into their houses. So summoning his master's debtors one by one, he said to the first, how much do you owe? My master? He said, a hundred measures of oil.

He said to him, take your bill. Sit down quickly and write 50. Then another he said, and how much do you owe? He said, a hundred measures of wheat.

And he said to him, take your bill and write 80. The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness.

For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their generation than the sons of light. And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous wealth, so that when it fails, they may receive you into the eternal dwellings.

One who is faithful in very little is also faithful in much. And one who is dishonest in very little is also dishonest in much.

If then you have not been faithful in your unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you that which is your own. No servant can serve two masters.

For either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:34:44.037 - 00:34:46.421
What is it about this parable that speaks to you?

Logan Lee
00:34:46.533 - 00:35:57.245
It's the relationship aspect. There's a whole thing here. A lot of times when people read this, they read it and they focus on the aspect of money.

But this is what we call a crisis parable. You know, there's different kind of ways to break parables down.

But this is kind of where you're reading this and there's automatically tension in the text, right? This manager is dishonest. So when I first preached on this, I thought about calling it cooking the books for Christ, right?

Or canceled for Christ or something like that. But it's the interesting thing about it is it's at the point where it forces you to make a decision.

And so Jesus is telling this parable, and he's telling it to the people that are there, to the crowd, and then there's obviously the disciples and the Pharisees. But this is a parable where you have to make a decision because the person in the story has a quick decision they have to make. What's going on here?

Manager is either embezzling money, misappropriating funds. He's doing something shady. We don't know exactly what, but we know it's not good, right? The boss finds out. He's like, all right, you're fired.

You know you're about to be fired. Turn in your accounts, and I need you to Pack your office and get out.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:35:57.405 - 00:35:57.821
Right.

Logan Lee
00:35:57.893 - 00:37:05.831
Right. As he's packing up his office, he's like, okay, what am I going to do? I can't be homeless. You know, I don't know how to survive.

Like, I'm not going to sit in the corner and beg. Like, I have too much pride for that. And, you know, the only job I could get would be a labor job. But, like, I'm not trained in that.

I work with my mind. I'm not strong enough to work construction or landscaping. Like, I can't do that. Right. So what am I going to do?

And the first thing he thinks about is, okay, relationships. I can lean into building a relationship that will then sustain me when this income dries up, when it stops.

And so when I look at this parable, Jesus is saying, you know, you're forced to make a decision here, and you look at what's going on. You know, he brings in the people. He's like, hey, how much do you owe? 100. Write 50. Oh, write 80. Right. Not anymore. Write this.

And the funny thing about this, and I've read it so many times, it never says the manager in any way was upset or angry. It's like, okay, this guy has been doing everything wrong, misappropriating it. And then you find out he's cooking the books on top of it.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:37:05.943 - 00:37:34.067
Yeah. I mean, I almost get the impression that when he says, oh, it's 50, that they then paid the 50 that they owed.

So the owner actually got some of what was owed to him, and he would have gotten nothing if it was still the original amount. That's. I mean, it's not clear, but I get the impression that that's why the owner was somewhat happy about it, was he got what was owed him.

Logan Lee
00:37:34.131 - 00:37:41.209
Right. So in a way, in kind of a twisted way, it could be a win, win, win. Right. It's a win for the.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:37:41.257 - 00:37:41.441
For.

Logan Lee
00:37:41.473 - 00:37:58.481
It could be a win for the boss because he's getting rid of a crooked manager, but he's also getting some money back that, you know, he probably wouldn't get back because if this guy leaves, nobody was going to try to push the debtors to give anything because they're like, Well, I owe 100 and I can't give in. I can have 100, so I can't give 50.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:37:58.593 - 00:38:02.345
Perhaps that manager was the only one that had the account of how much they owed.

Logan Lee
00:38:02.425 - 00:38:47.313
Exactly. And it's also win for that person because they were able to settle some debt.

But it's interesting to me because he never you know, he's like, hey, you're still fired. But that was, that was smooth, you know, that was shrewd, the fact that he would think about that.

And so the moral of the parable, if you were to put it really simply, is that relationships always matter more than revenue is what I like to say. Right. Relationships are always over riches, relationships.

You know that part where Jesus says people that are crooked still know how to navigate, they're street smart, they know how to, how to kind of use their skills to gain an advantage. And I want you to do the same thing, but for the kingdom. So remember in Luke, he's always talking about the kingdom of God.

And so it's this upside down kingdom. I want you to be a wise as a serpent, but innocent as a dove. I want you to.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:38:47.329 - 00:38:48.697
I was just about to bring that up.

Logan Lee
00:38:48.761 - 00:39:31.997
Exactly. You know, I want you to really think about what's happening here. Jesus is not commending this guy.

He's like, I just want you to look at it for what it is. Right? Look at, look at what's going on in the text. Look at potential, look at the crisis, because you have a decision to make too.

And he's also talking to the Pharisees who were lovers of money, as it says later, and they're just scoffing like, okay, Jesus, what do you know? You know, you hang out with poor people and prostitutes and tax collectors and you don't know how the world works.

You're just some dirt poor rabbi, you don't know anything. But in reality, he's also telling to them and he's like, hey, you're about to be fired and your money's not going to save you.

So you have a decision to make too. So there's a crisis point here in every angle.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:39:32.101 - 00:40:26.711
An application for us, obviously is not for us to be dishonest in what our work at all, but as we go into whatever line of work or whatever our mission at the time is, it goes back to the wisest serpents.

Thing is, if there's a game that has to be played, know what the game is and figure out how much of it you can play without crossing the line to being dishonest and sinful.

Yes, I was going to couch it under the word dishonest, but yes, being sinful, if there's a game that you kind of have to play, you got to have to play the game. Otherwise you're not going to. The game's not going to come to you. They're not going to just award you, oh, hey, here's a point in the game. Yeah.

You don't need to hit a home run. No. You got to get up to bat.

Logan Lee
00:40:26.803 - 00:40:27.223
Right.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:40:27.319 - 00:40:31.223
Going with the baseball analogy, stealing bases is part of the game.

Logan Lee
00:40:31.279 - 00:40:32.063
Yes, it is.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:40:32.199 - 00:40:49.079
So you have to be able to know, oh, I'm allowed to steal a base. I might get tagged out and caught, but it's still part of the game. It's still part of the construct.

And if you don't know it, you might not have that opportunity to score that point.

Logan Lee
00:40:49.167 - 00:41:37.211
Some people follow the rules, some people break the rules. And then friend of mine, he's just a serial entrepreneur, you know, back in Omaha, he's so brilliant at, like, circumnavigating the rules.

I used to just kind of break through the rules and break through the gates, and he's just, you know, I've learned over the years, like, not everything has to be confronted head on. You can circumnavigate things in still a good way. Right? And so it's about that shrewdness, right?

It's about going around it and being like, okay, what can we do here? And so to even make that personal, what I've realized is relationships matter the most.

And so I have gone out of my way to go to events and be around people that, you know, nothing bad, really weird, you know, happening, but just things that maybe a pastor or a church planter wouldn't spend their time doing because they're like, well, it's not going to give me any people showing up on a Sunday.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:41:37.283 - 00:41:37.563
Right.

Logan Lee
00:41:37.619 - 00:42:37.033
It might not get me money, but there's something about relational equity that I've always understood.

And I think that's one way I've always tried to punch above my weight, is, hey, you don't have to be the biggest influencer, have the biggest social media following. You don't have to have all the money. But if you can learn how to leverage the relational influence that you do have, you will be far ahead.

Because I have seen people who, you know, based upon where they started, based upon the opportunities they were given, maybe early on they could be further ahead than maybe they are. And yet they're kind of butting up against the wall. Like, I'm not sure why this is so hard, why this is struggling. And.

And I think for me, having always kind of had this sense of, I have to. I have to really figure this out, I have to hustle, I have to. It's never been easy, right?

Because of that, I've always kind of learned, if you can lean into relationship if you can just say yes to somebody, say yes to a phone call, to a text, say yes to a podcast, say yes to a zoom. You don't know what's going to come out of anything.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:42:37.129 - 00:42:40.273
I mean, there are certain points where sometimes we have to say no.

Logan Lee
00:42:40.369 - 00:42:41.009
Absolutely.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:42:41.137 - 00:43:30.143
We have to learn how to say no sometimes. But you're right. You never know what an opportunity might lead, where you might go in to do a little thing and it might get promoted.

And for those working the industry, too, the entertainment industry, if someone hires you, I mean, yes, it's a little bit about your skill set, but it's more because of your personality. Because if it's a set position, you're on set with these people for 12 hours a day and you want to have a good time.

Yeah, I've actually worked sets where we had a PA that, yeah, he was doing his job, but then he was ruffling some feathers and we found a replacement the second day.

Logan Lee
00:43:30.239 - 00:44:03.509
Nobody wants a jerk on set. Nobody wants someone on the team that just is going to create disunity and disharmony. And that's something that I learned early on.

I had a pastor tell me, say yes to every opportunity that you can when you're starting out until you have to start saying no. Yeah, I think I might be at that point now. But it's kind of that sense of you need to kind of learn where things are going.

One thing I've noticed, in the absence of a huge platform, in the absence of tons of money, and Jesus is talking to people that didn't have anything. He's talking to fishermen. He's talking to ex prostitutes, ex tax collectors.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:44:03.557 - 00:44:06.693
He's talking to people that are probably the ones owing the money in the.

Logan Lee
00:44:06.749 - 00:44:52.353
Exactly. These are the ones who need to hear. It's not about the wealth because you don't have wealth.

It's not about the power, the influence, because you don't have any. But everyone here has relationship. Everyone listening, watching all of us have some relationship somewhere.

How can we leverage that for the kingdom of God? How can we use that relationship in that positive way? And so that's what I love about this story, is that it's for everybody.

It's for those people who probably needed to hear it the most.

And it also serves as kind of a warning and a literal come to Jesus moment for the Pharisees who, you know, whether they turned or not, they needed to, you know, witness had to be bore to them about the condition of their hearts.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:44:52.489 - 00:45:49.735
I feel like the Latter half, after the end of the parable as he's talking about it, is what people tend to focus on when they read this. One who is faithful and very little is also faithful and much. And one who's dishonest and very little is also dishonest and much.

And that's, I mean, the first part of that, just, okay, you don't have the big, you know, like this podcast.

I don't have the big, you know, budget and all the equipment I'd like, but I'm like, I've got just this little bit, and I'm trying to be faithful with what I have so that God will give me more and so I will prove that I will be faithful with that. And I've seen a lot of people use this with tithing too, you know, and. Okay, you know, you've got just a little bit, you know.

Yeah, you say when you're making millions, you're going to tithe that, but you're making $100 and you didn't tithe $10.

Logan Lee
00:45:50.235 - 00:46:29.347
Faithfulness, that's something I preached on this past week. Faithfulness is a. It's a lifestyle. Being consistent, fat, faithful, available and teachable.

Those are the three things that, if you can do those three things, if you can be faithful, right?

If you can be consistent, if you can show up, if you can be in the room, if you can be present, if you can make yourself available, if you can be open to conversation, discussion, correction, explanation, dialogue. So many people don't even want to have dialogue anymore. If you can just be open to dialogue, we can get somewhere.

And then finally, can you be teachable? Can you receive new information, or are you incapable of learning? I think all that goes along with willing to listen. Exactly.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:46:29.411 - 00:46:30.135
Correction.

Logan Lee
00:46:30.275 - 00:46:53.475
Oh, yeah, that's a big one. When I look at this, like, I love that, both parts to it.

I love to focus on the relationship aspect, but I also love how Jesus is, you know, he's focusing on a point, but he's also attacking it from multiple angles. So he's talking about those that had an obsession with money and, you know, those who are not being faithful. Right.

He's talking about those who need to leverage relationship better. You know, I mean, there's so many things going on here.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:46:57.265 - 00:47:01.513
Is there anything else about this parable that we haven't touched on that we.

Logan Lee
00:47:01.529 - 00:47:21.191
Need to look at the last part there where it says, you cannot serve both God and money. And there's, you know, Jesus talks about money so much, I believe, you know, Matthew Gospel talks probably the Most about it.

But the interesting thing about it is, you know, obviously that scripture gets misquoted. People say, oh, money is the root of all evil.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:47:21.353 - 00:47:23.275
No, the love of money.

Logan Lee
00:47:23.395 - 00:47:38.731
He says, you cannot serve both God and money. And so in Hebrew, it's actually translated to mammon. That's another translation. So mammon. Mammon is wealth.

And so mammon and the word amen come from the same root. And so.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:47:38.803 - 00:47:39.979
Interesting. I didn't know that.

Logan Lee
00:47:40.067 - 00:48:12.509
Basically, it's like our money has in God we trust on it, which was put later on. Right. But it's basically like you're saying, whatever you say amen, whatever you are coming into agreement with is what you worship. It's your wealth.

Jesus is saying, make friends with those who live their lives by unrighteous worship. Right. They're focused on something else. And so it could. It doesn't even have to be money.

It could be fame, it could be success, it could be sex, it could be alcohol, it could be entertainment of any kind. It could be anything that is put ahead of God.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:48:12.597 - 00:49:00.487
And that. Actually, I pulled up really quickly.

I always like to, you know, I look at my primary translations, but usually when I'm trying to dive into what it might mean, I always love bringing up the Amplified Bible. And it says mammon, but then in parentheses it says riches or anything in which you trust and on which you rely.

Yeah, the context here is you can't trust and rely on other things in place of God. God is who you need to trust. God is who you need to rely upon. You need him to serve your needs.

Money and riches and whatnot can be a tool, but it's not what you should trust in. It's not what you should rely on. Oh, well, I can get through the day because I've got money. No, you can get through the day because you have God.

Logan Lee
00:49:00.591 - 00:50:36.093
And what I see a lot is a lot of people who are in ministry. Often sometimes there's a dichotomy between I'm going to do my church and do my thing here. And, you know, you have to maintain that.

But it says make friends. So build relationships with those who worship and pursue things other than God. You should be friend and build relationships with them.

Now, that's a whole nother discussion as to what level and how much time you spend with people who don't share your values and all that stuff.

But as a general principle, I live my life going, okay, if Jesus is at the core of my life and people need to know Jesus at some point, like it says their wealth, their mammon, whatever they worship is gonna. It's gonna run out. It's gonna stop, right? That flow is gonna be cut off. It could happen at the end of their life.

It could happen tomorrow, could happen in a year from now. Maybe it doesn't happen for some people. Maybe they die just living this life. Who knows?

But I want to always know that I've built relationships with people who are far from God, so that if and when they do turn, there's someone there. You know what I mean?

Because oftentimes I think what we do is if you're in ministry, maybe you do church or you do whatever it is you do, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna blast this out or evangelize this, and I hope people come. But the reality is that the only people who are going to come to a church are people who go to church.

There's people, you know, in the industry, it's like they would never darken the door of a church on Sunday. Not even because they hate church or hate God, just because. It's just something. Something I would never think about doing.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:50:36.189 - 00:50:41.349
They're not even the Christmas and Easter attendees.

Logan Lee
00:50:41.437 - 00:51:46.337
What's something I don't do? I don't play pickleball. I know it's becoming a thing now, but I'm just probably never going to do it. I don't know.

Not because I hate pickleball, just because it's just not something I would ever think about doing. You always want to be somebody who focuses on those relationships. And I think a lot of times Christians know that.

But what happens is they don't think about it. Like Jesus is saying, be shrewd about it. Be shrewd. Really think really clearly about how you.

And it might be through shared interest, it might be through other ways.

But I think this is the hard part for a lot of Christians is what I would round it off with, is a lot of times we do this in hopes that if I spend enough time with this person, they'll get saved. If I spend enough time with this person, they'll come to church, right? Or they'll do whatever. But what if they don't?

Or what if they don't for a long time? Are you prepared to be present? Right. Are you prepared to be in a relationship for a life, for life long? Regardless of the outcome as we close.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:51:46.401 - 00:51:51.265
Out, do you have any application points that the audience can take home?

Logan Lee
00:51:51.345 - 00:53:29.893
I would say that probably the most accessible thing is for you to take inventory of who's in your life. Because God always puts people around us.

And maybe you haven't recognized it yet, but, you know, if you are somebody who's a follower of Jesus, think about who's in your life already, who is far from God, people who don't know Jesus, people who you love, who you spend time with. Maybe you do things with them already. Maybe you know them, maybe they're neighbors, right?

Maybe they're coworkers or people you go to school with or whatever. Relatives, friends and family. Of course, whoever they are, tank inventory even now of a few. A few of those people.

And just ask yourself, how can I be more intentional about pursuing a relationship with them? And it could be as simple as, hey, let's grab coffee or let's get lunch.

Or it could just be, hey, just start texting them, give them a call, see how they're doing. You know, the holidays are coming up, or, you know, or whenever, whenever you're.

It doesn't matter, you know, reach out to somebody, Just start to develop that relationship. I would say that's the big thing.

A lot of people, unless you're just a super social person, a lot of people will be like, well, I don't really know what to say. It doesn't really matter what you say. Honestly, most people, you probably have experienced this 90% of the time.

Most people just appreciate that you even thought cared enough to think about them existing. You know what I'm talking about?

The fact that Aaron would just call or text me or even ask me if I wanted to grab a meal or grab a coffee, grab a drink or whatever. That alone is like, oh, oh, okay.

In a city where everyone's doing things about them, the fact that you would even do that and you're not trying to get anything out of it, you just, yeah, I just want to see how you're doing.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:53:29.989 - 00:54:14.381
If you couldn't even do that.

Like, one of the things I do, I try and be more intentional with certain people, but at the very least, if I'm on Instagram and I see a funny reel or I see a funny comic, I screenshot it, or I grab the link and I send it to people that I know will enjoy it. Oh, here's a funny thing about a cat. I send it to my friends that have cats and the dog. It's like, okay, who are my dog people?

And I send it to my three dog people. I purposely send it to people because in a way, it's me thinking about them, and it's a very low grade. Just kind of keeping that flow going.

So it's easier later to go, hey, how you doing this week? Or Hey, I need prayer for something this week.

Logan Lee
00:54:14.463 - 00:54:24.665
That's what it's all about. Just keep talking to people.

Keep talking and keep pursuing people in relationship and then let the Holy Spirit do that work in people's hearts and in their lives.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:24.785 - 00:54:33.241
All right, this has been a fantastic conversation. I'm glad we finally got it on the books and then we finally had it. It's been wonderful to have you on the show.

Logan Lee
00:54:33.313 - 00:54:34.601
Likewise. Thanks so much, Aaron.

Aaron Matthew Kaiser
00:54:34.713 - 00:55:33.245
Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Eternal Impact. As always, a special shout out to our guest, Logan Lee, for sharing his story and telling us how building relationships helped him build his church.

If you'd like to learn more about Logan and Ignite La Church, please visit ignitelachurch.org in our next episode, we sit down with Kyle Joachim from Silver Lake Community Church to discuss the crossroads mentioned in Jeremiah 6:16 and how that verse impacted his journey of sobriety and maturity. If this conversation encouraged you, make sure to follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and share this episode with your friends.

For more information or to join our email newsletter, visit our website at EternalImpact show until next episode, I am Aaron Matthew Kaiser, and this is Eternal Impact.